topic Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes in Project data & BIM

Defining new IDs for Attributes

agroni — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:06:58 GMT

Hi,
after a really looooooooooooooooooong absence i decided to come back to the community... must be honest, the new layout looks more inviting

While I was working on developing a strategy for separating files in big projects, I came across the issue of attribute index number. Now I understand that this number is important. Now is the time to get serious and I need your help

As you can see on the image, my number system in my already complex template file is crazy. I want to give it a clear order for all attributes (layers, lines, composites, etc.) beginning from 1 and going up. The only way that I found out, is by deleting the attributes for ex. layers and appending the same ones from the same template (opened on the right screen). The problem is that I have a lot of elements in my template that have these attributes referenced (in use). By deleting them, I lose those elements on floor plan and also all other links like favorites or deeply hidden properties.

Do you think there is a way to define a new number system for the attribute IDs without destroying the connection?

Re: Defeining new IDs for Attributes

runxel — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:45:10 GMT

Why do you want to implement it in a live file... better keep that for the template.

And by the way: please keep in mind that Archicad expects some special attributes at a certain index.
E.G. foreground- and background-only fill must be at 64 and 65.

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

agroni — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 04:54:20 GMT

I don't want to implement it on a ongoing project. It will be done for the template file.
I am trying to understand how did this numbering happen in the first place, since in the original Archicad template the logic is already there. Anyway, it is not an easy process to change these parameters.

And by the way: please keep in mind that Archicad expects some special attributes at a certain index.
E.G. foreground- and background-only fill must be at 64 and 65.

Why is that for? Where and how should i know this

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Barry Kelly — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 01:31:51 GMT

agroni wrote:
Why is that for? Where and how should i know this

Look at the default Graphisoft template.
If you want to use any of the standard library objects you will want to keep the default fills, pens, surfaces that they use otherwise you will be constantly changing settings as you need the objects or having to set up a lot of favourites with all the settings you want.

It is not impossible to change the attribute index numbers to what you want but it is very tedious.
You can append from one side of the Attribute Manager to the other and you can duplicate attributes to get to the index number you want before you append (then delete all the duplicates of course).
And remember in the attribute settings dialogues, you can usually delete and replace to delete an unwanted attribute with a new or even temporary attribute as you juggle the numbers.

You can also list the attribute in the Attribute Manager by index number so you can more easily spot the gaps.
Click on the # symbol in the heading.

Barry.

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

agroni — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:23:04 GMT

The GS Template is just an example and should be possible to adapt it to office requirements. An example are the standard fills from GS which are way too much of what we need. Therefore, I believe there should be a possibility to manipulate these values in order to get a proper office template.
Not being able to change the Attribute ID seems to me like a big disadvantage and an obstacle to achieve higher standard. Sadly this is interconnected to other parts of the program.
I don’t understand how are you appending an Attribute and giving it a new number? The only way so far is to delete the attributes from the original file and embed them from the source file. When you append an attribute from a different source, the program defines the next free number in the list. That is why only deleting them will give automatically the number 2, 3, 4, ….

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Erwin Edel — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:54:32 GMT

agroni wrote:
Do you think there is a way to define a new number system for the attribute IDs without destroying the connection?

To answer this question:

Yes, but it takes a lot of time and patience.

I do this if I need to migrate a very old project to current version of ArchiCAD.

I get lots of unwanted fills, building materials and such.

What I do is:
1. Purge everything I do not need (but as pointed out, the ArchiCAD library expects certain fills, pens, line types etc to exist at their respective index numbers)
2. Append the attribute I want to change in manager until I get a suitably high index number
3. duplicate the remaining attributes, so they all get high index numbers.
4. delete the original attributes one by one and chosing to replace them with their copies (this maintains the connection)
5. create my new attributes
6. delete the copies and assigning the new attributes as needed.

I will say this only works well with bring an old project to a new template that is based off the original archicad template.

Maybe your localisation is bloated, but I do not have fills or linetypes that are useless in the NL template. If anything, I've added more fills and linetypes.

Layers are fine to do with as you please, since as far as I know, you only need at least the one ArchiCAD layer, layer 0.

Pen sets work fine for me too, just made some small adjustments for some missing pen weights.

You can also sort attributes by name, if you are bothered by the number sorting.

Outside the attribute manager, those numbers do not show up anywhere.

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

runxel — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 16:05:04 GMT

agroni wrote:
I don’t understand how are you appending an Attribute and giving it a new number?

Yeah, yeah... having the possibility to assign custom index numbers is a long standing wish.
But tbh – a "normal" user will never the see it, heck, and if they won't care. It has little to no impact.
(It's like tidying the windows registry)

Erwin wrote:
Outside the attribute manager, those numbers do not show up anywhere.

However, there is an easier way to manage those numbers.
Just export your attributes as XML.
Open it in a text editor and change the values inside the <Index> tags to your wish.

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Anonymous — Sat, 16 May 2020 10:37:32 GMT

Why is it important/necessary to manually manage id numbers?
I'd need to organize a project where multiple projects are hotlinked between each other so I’ve run into this discussion on importance of keeping attribute index numbers unique and separated.

I did a test on 3 pln- files that all had layers and composites using same index numbers. When the files were hotlinked, the pln hosting another one as a hotlink just gave the layers and composites new free index numbers. I could rename layers and update the hotlinked file with no problems.

Since setting up and maintaining a complex arrangement on centralized attribute index numbering between multiple offices working on a same project is a lot of work, I’d like to know what’s the downside if we dont do it?

What happens if you don’t fiddle with attribute index numbers? I’ve read it gives you problems and headache but to be a bit more detailed...

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Minh Nguyen — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 08:03:37 GMT

Hi All,

I hope everything is going well for you!

I am happy to say that this has been added to our WishList database (please refer to it as Wish #12750). As I can see that this could be a crucial function, I truly hope that our Product Management team will adopt this one in the future.

Thank you all once more, and I wish you a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

agroni — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 03:49:25 GMT

mnguyen wrote:
I am happy to say that this has been added to our WishList database (please refer to it as Wish #12750). As I can see that this could be a crucial function, I truly hope that our Product Management team will adopt this one in the future.

Finally after two years someone is talking seriously. Thank you Minh!
Where is this "wishliste database", that contains probably over a thousand entries?

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Minh Nguyen — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 06:56:08 GMT

agroni wrote:
Finally after two years someone is talking seriously. Thank you Minh!
Where is this "wishliste database", that contains probably over a thousand entries?

Hi,

Thank you for your enthusiasm! Unfortunately, at the moment, the wish list is an internal database, that is not available for the public. But, I hope that this will be changed in the future, and (maybe I can dream a bit) have some voting system, so that users can decide which function will be included in the next version.

Have a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:22:44 GMT

ID's are a hot issue and can cause a great deal of time to fix when problems arise. I tend not to mess with the numbers that already exist. I don't think it is a good idea to try to restart from 1 etc.

Regarding hotlinked files, I have read somewhere (but haven't tried yet) :
Imagine we have one host file and a hotlink file. The idea is to create a third file. This third file is where all attributs are managed when needed. For example, if one needs a new complex profile, it is created in this file. From time to time, when needed, all attributes are exported from this third file into the host and hotlink files.
I think it's a possible workaround... Has anyone tried something like it?

Thanks in advance

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:26:48 GMT

afaria wrote:
Regarding hotlinked files, I have read somewhere (but haven't tried yet) :
Imagine we have one host file and a hotlink file. The idea is to create a third file. This third file is where all attributs are managed when needed. For example, if one needs a new complex profile, it is created in this file. From time to time, when needed, all attributes are exported from this third file into the host and hotlink files.
I think it's a possible workaround... Has anyone tried something like it?

In my experience, the main issues that may arise from this workflow are:
- If you need to add or edit any existing attribute in the "Attribute File", you will have to update all linked files manually. And I mean not just open all the files and update the hotlink; You will have to open the Attribute Manager inside host file (before updating the hotlinked Attribute File) > Load the Attribute File Atributes > Add the host attributes "by Index" > Repeat the process for each host file ad nauseun (This process I personally call "The Japanese Tea Ceremony" );
- If you happen to forget to update a single hotlinked file, then when you update your Master File, attributes will start to duplicating in cascade with sequential numbers... (Which I personally call Attribute Avalanches ) And you will never know which file has to be updated... Then you will have to repeat it all over again .

IMO, this workflow, may only work in a small team with each member controlling its won hotlinked file, and a BIM Manager that maintain the Attribute File and communicate each member to do the "Japanese Tea Ceremony" ASAP.

So, to avoid this issue, I propose a Dedicated Shared Resource File. If you want you can vote.

Or: Someone please tell me I am missing something!

Cheers,

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

jl_lt — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:04:54 GMT

Mr. Nguyen, thank you for being so active in the forums. What Mr. Braza suggests, if i understand it correctly, is something that has arised many times over in the forums in one way or another, and its just not a simple wish, but rather, It´s one of those things that, if implemented, would radically improve Archicad´s functionality for the benefit of ALL. Hope it gets some priority.

Re: Defining new IDs for Attributes

Barry Kelly — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 01:01:45 GMT

Version 24 now at least has a re-indexing option that will help to make re-organising a little easier.
See the video in this post ... https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=62461&p=313362#p313305

Barry.