topic Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings in Project data & BIM

Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 09:16:27 GMT

Hello,
I am having some difficulty understanding
the logic of the floor plan display in AC 10.

I draw a wall 8'-0" high with it's base
at at 0'-0" from story one.
I set the floor plan cut plane height
to 9'-0" from story one.
If I set the "height to next" in the
story settings to 7'-6" then the wall
contours show as cut lines
If I change the "height to next" to 8'-6"
then the wall contours show as uncut lines.

I am unclear about what the height to next
has to do with how a wall is shown as
cut or uncut by the floor plan cut plane.

Perhaps someone could explain this.
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

TomWaltz — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:22:37 GMT

I think the cut plane has to occur within your current story's limits, but I could be wrong. If you try to place it outside the story, it usually just goes to the closest point within the story, in your case at 7'-6"

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:38:39 GMT

Hello Tom,
From what I can tell you are right.
That is how it seems to work.
Can you think of a reason why
GS made it work that way ?
Seems to me that everything
would work fine if the "height to next"
had no affect on how a wall is shown
in plan but only on the wall height
and the height of the cut plane.
I respect how GS thinks most of the time
so I'm obviously missing something.
Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

TomWaltz — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:04:22 GMT

I think it's reasonably consistent with with "story" concept, that the cut plane occurs somewhere within the current story.

Otherwise, why not dump stories and just have a bunch of cutplanes?

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:21:06 GMT

Yes Tom, I have to agree with you.
The "Story concept" is still with us. As it should be.
Thanks for your observations.
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

TomWaltz — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:45:02 GMT

I could kind of go for no stories and cut plans the way we cut sections.... then you could offset for split-levels and create partial plans.... hmm....

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

__archiben — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:15:41 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I could kind of go for no stories and cut plans the way we cut sections.... then you could offset for split-levels and create partial plans.... hmm....

two kinds of cut-planes maybe?

- primary, storey-defining cut-planes;
- secondary, user-defined, drawing-type cut-planes.

the first are the natural progression of our current 'storey' concept and necessary to define the true vertical organisation of the building. the way that at least one storey is a currently a mandatory file requirement, so would at least one primary cut-plane.

these might have their relative floor plan range fixed by storey-to-storey heights so that storey-by-storey analysis can be carried out. along with 3D view filtering and the like.

the secondary cut-planes are more flexible, totally user definable and like the cut-planes we already know. being able to set staggers (for split level) and extents (for partial plans) would be a welcome addition though.

the difference between the current storeys & cut-planes and these primary & secondary cut-planes may be very subtle, but i think a necessary progression to move the user base mindset out of plan-view modelling. of course it would have to go hand-in-hand with live, simultaneously updating, model-view windows and improved element creation and editing techniques . . .

dreamin' . . .

~/ben

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Link — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:10:26 GMT

Peter wrote:
Hello,
I am having some difficulty understanding
the logic of the floor plan display in AC 10.

I draw a wall 8'-0" high with it's base
at at 0'-0" from story one.
I set the floor plan cut plane height
to 9'-0" from story one.
If I set the "height to next" in the
story settings to 7'-6" then the wall
contours show as cut lines
If I change the "height to next" to 8'-6"
then the wall contours show as uncut lines.

I am unclear about what the height to next
has to do with how a wall is shown as
cut or uncut by the floor plan cut plane.

Perhaps someone could explain this.
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Hi Peter

Sure you can have cutplanes outside the current story. That is how framing plans can be created for example, with the 'ghost' of the story below. You can set the cut plane to be say 1'-0" below your current story. It will then show the walls below, whilst also showing the framing of the current story*.

The problem you've found is that this doesn't work very well until those stories are actually created. If you set the cut plane outside the range of the story, and there is no other story in that range, it is limited to the current story.

Your problem makes sense, really. At first the cut plane was constrained by the story at 7'-6" and hence cut through your 8' wall. Then you raised the story height to 8'-6", effectively lifting your cut plane above 8'-0", hence the uncut appearance.

If you did all of that after the stories were created, you would see predictable results.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Link.

*Doesn't work so well with beams yet because the centerlines can appear in the story below.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:45:47 GMT

Hello Link,
You wrote:
"The problem you've found is that this doesn't work very well until those stories are actually created.
If you set the cut plane outside the range of the story,
and there is no other story in that range,
it is limited to the current story. "

This I did not know.

Thank you Link
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:06:14 GMT

The reason I asked my question is that many
including myself have found some problems with the
plan display system in AC 10. Not that there were
not even more serious problems in previous versions.

Recently, I ran into a problem that is depicted
in the attached image.

In the days of pencil and paper drafting
the floor plan was diagrammatic not littoral
and was intended as a communication tool.
One took liberties with nominal plan cut height
as necessary to show what was needed.
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Link — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:43:36 GMT

Well not being able to split the cut plane is just one of the many downfalls of the 'tool'!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 02:07:23 GMT

Peter

What if the 8' wall were set to "Show on own story only" and the door "Symbollic"?

Could be wrong, this gets me very confused with all the possible combinations of settings. I know you've explained it in depth, Link, but it just isn't getting thru' here I'm afraid.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Link — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 02:37:39 GMT

s2art wrote:
Peter

What if the 8' wall were set to "Show on own story only" and the door "Symbollic"?

Could be wrong, this gets me very confused with all the possible combinations of settings. I know you've explained it in depth, Link, but it just isn't getting thru' here I'm afraid.

No worries mate, sometimes I just like to find a harder wall to bang my head on, is all! And it's not because people don't get it, it's because it is so hard to get.

But you're right of course. Peter can use the wall's setting to determine the visibility of his doors. Set the wall to 'Show on own story only or Show on Current Story Only'. Since the wall is not a multi-story wall, it really doesn't matter, but that's where problems do set in. (It's much tougher in storefront especially when you want numbering to appear). And the wall doesn't have openings above the door which is a bonus. Then he can change the wall's appearance to Symbolic Cut which I always say can be thought of as 'show this like it was in ArchiCAD 9'. So, like ArchiCAD 9, it will show the wall with the door in it, and totally disregard the cut plane.

Clear as mud right?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:22:57 GMT

Hello Guys,
Sorry I was out.
All openings are set to symbolic.
All walls are set to show on own story only.
Link, the option "symbolic cut" is always grayed out
in my AC 10 projects. If I select "cut only" the low wall
disappears completely.
Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Link — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:34:14 GMT

That's the confusing part, it is the wall you need to set to symbolic, not the doors. And to do that you need to set it to Own Story Only. You sure you can't select it?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:45:47 GMT

Hello Link,
I changed the door in the eight foot high wall from symbolic
to projected with overhead and now I can see the casings
but the "symbolic cut" for the wall is still grayed out.
I just checked in Archicad Help and it says that this option
is not available for complex or sloped walls
but all of my walls are simple vertical walls.
Honest.
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Link — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:52:31 GMT

It all makes sense except for the greying out. Can you upload a stripped down pln?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:52:35 GMT

I just checked again and that wall was set to automatic and
when I reset it to own story the symbolic cut became not
grayed out so I selected that and as you promised
the wall shows with cut contours and the door is visible.
I did not know that that was one of the implications of "Automatic"
I thank you once again Link.
Peter Devlin

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Link — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 04:02:47 GMT

Peter wrote:
I did not know that that was one of the implications of "Automatic"

I think GS is trying to tell us that you can't set multi-story wall to Symbolic. Since symbolic can be thought of as 'Show it like it was in AC9' and in AC9 we couldn't have multi-story walls, it starts to make sense.

Re: Floor Plan Cut Plane and Story Settings

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 04:16:42 GMT

Hello Link,
Maybe it makes sense but one of the things I have always
appreciated about Archicad is, that unlike some other applications,
one is allowed to do things in very large number of different ways
even if some of those possible ways will get one into trouble.
I hope GS isn't going autocratic on us.
Cheers,
Peter Devlin