topic Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently in Project data & BIM

Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Tue, 14 Jan 2025 20:26:19 GMT

Hi All,

I've encountered an issue where a composite wall profile has Brick+Air+Stud+Interior Finish in it. When I change the Type of the Brick to Core, the Air also changes with it, and when I change the Air Type to Other, then Stud follows the change too.

This is very strange as somehow it's behaving in an associated manner which isn't what I want. See screenshot below:

Anyone has come across this issue and knows how to resolve it? Cheers!

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

Barry Kelly — Fri, 13 May 2022 01:15:16 GMT

They are all dependent on each other, and they have a hierarchy - 'core', 'other' then 'finish'.

When you have multiple skins, you can surround a 'core' with 'other' or 'finish', but you can't have 'other' of 'finish' surrounded by 'cores'.

Everything between 2 'core' skins must be 'cores'.

Everything between 2 'other' skins must be 'core' or 'other' - you can not have a 'finish' on the inside of a wall.

You can have what ever you like between 2 'finishes' so long as the 'cores' are inside the 'others'.

So basically 'finish' can only be on the outside (you can have as many 'finish' skins as you want ('finish' next to 'finish' is fine).

Then 'other' skins can be inside the 'finish' skins and 'core' must be inside them all.

I look at it that the 'core' is the strongest skin, then 'other' and 'finish' is the weakest.

The weaker skins can not go between any stronger skins.

I hope that is clearer than mud.🤣

Barry.

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

Lingwisyer — Fri, 13 May 2022 01:33:31 GMT

As AC sees it, all your cavity wall spaces are Core, which is not very intuitive...

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Fri, 13 May 2022 03:01:24 GMT

Very interesting - first time I heard of this (though I'm fairly new to AC)!

I assume that only applies to composite walls then, as in the complex profile it can be setup as intended in my description earlier i.e. weak skin can be inside cores. See below screenshot as an example:

So does it mean that in order to set things up the way I intend them to be, I will have to convert all composite profiles to complex? This doesn't sound very convenient if at all. Is there another work around?

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Fri, 13 May 2022 03:01:38 GMT

I know! not very helpful...

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Fri, 13 May 2022 03:11:31 GMT

to follow up further - the idea or drawing I'm trying to create is a slab setout drawing with core only walls showing above at 50% transparent to give a bit more context. In this instance we'd like to show both the external brick walls as well as stud framings, esp. when slab edges are set to the face of stud frames.

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

Barry Kelly — Fri, 13 May 2022 03:57:11 GMT

What is wrong with the cavity being a core?

If it is an empty fill and transparent material, you won't see it anywhere.

All of my cavities are cores and I have never come across any issues.

In fact my cavity (or air space) is one of my strongest building materials, as generally I never want it breached by any other construction.

So I consider it a 'core' element of my wall.

Otherwise I guess you will have to use complex profiles as you discovered.

As they can be any shape (not just flat skins next to each other) you can set any fill as core, other or finish.

Barry.

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Fri, 13 May 2022 04:03:42 GMT

Fair enough @Barry Kelly. I suppose I wanted the plan to have that clear distinction of what's being "hatched" in grey can be labelled as "cores", and that cavity in this instance will just be "thin air". A bit like what's working with the complex profile below (slab edge location is to be updated)

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

Barry Kelly — Fri, 13 May 2022 04:13:13 GMT

I have never had the need to label anything as 'core'.

Nor 'other' or 'finish' come to that.

None of that will affect schedules.

Barry.

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Fri, 13 May 2022 04:28:37 GMT

It will not affect schedule - just graphically I wanted to have that distinction

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

Lingwisyer — Fri, 13 May 2022 04:24:49 GMT

The fill is independent of whether it is assigned the status of core, other or finish.

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

Barry Kelly — Fri, 13 May 2022 04:24:50 GMT

I am not sure what you mean by graphically.

I can see you have grey wall skins and an empty cavity.

Clearly they are graphically different?

Barry.

Re: Wall buildup type change in associative way instead of independently

cs_ryl — Fri, 13 May 2022 04:28:15 GMT

yes in the screenshot they are showing up as intended under the complex profile. But when it comes to the composite profile the "Cavity" won't be white as it has to be "Core" under the composite type, and when display is under Core Only - with a graphical overwrite of dash and grey highlighting walls over slabs.

Anyway - this discussion has been very helpful in understanding how AC works. Will take note of this and adapt to the drawing accordingly! Cheers guys!