topic Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project? in Project data & BIM

switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Mats_Knutsson — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:29:36 GMT

Hi,

I have a large hospital project with lots of .pln hotlinks and I'd like to change them to .mod. Is it safe or should I avoid?

/Mats

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Erwin Edel — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 07:46:47 GMT

I think hotlinking PLN will bring in all layers from the file. Saving or publishing to a module will give you some control over what you save. You could allways relink back to pln if you noticed a bug, but I can't think of a bug happening.

Still if your workflow is to keep those PLN and just save MOD from that after changes, you are just adding an extra step to slow things down.

Personally I keep all my module 'workspaces' in my main project. I just hide them from printing by pinning them to a renovation filter after I've saved the MOD file. I 'unpin' the selection when making changes and saving again.

This keeps everything in one place, no hassle with drawing attributes. Also easy to make changes in relation to other parts of the model with trace and reference.

Still, best to set these things up as early as possible.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Barry Kelly — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 08:57:12 GMT

If you are re-linking your hotlinks, then you may lose any associated dimensions if you have added any to your main file.

Barry.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Erwin Edel — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 10:40:33 GMT

Barry wrote:
If you are re-linking your hotlinks, then you may lose any associated dimensions if you have added any to your main file.

Barry.

Would this happen if you save the module file from the originally hotlinked PLN though? I would assume the internal ID would stay the same. Still, fair warning, that might happen.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Mats_Knutsson — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 11:09:00 GMT

Barry wrote:
If you are re-linking your hotlinks, then you may lose any associated dimensions if you have added any to your main file.

Barry.

Ouch. No go then. Dot't dare to chance. We'll do the .mod next project.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Barry Kelly — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 00:51:27 GMT

Mats_Knutsson wrote:

Barry wrote:
If you are re-linking your hotlinks, then you may lose any associated dimensions if you have added any to your main file.

Barry.
Ouch. No go then. Dot't dare to chance. We'll do the .mod next project.

The only way you will know for sure is to try it and see.
You don't have to save your main file if it doesn't work.
Or try it on a small test file.

I have not tried it but I am assuming because you are replacing one hotlink with another and that they could be totally different, there is no way that associated dimensions could stay.
Even if the MOD file is based from the original PLN that was hotlinked so they are essentially the same, I am guessing that associated dims will be lost.

Barry.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Mats_Knutsson — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 13:54:02 GMT

Barry wrote:

Mats_Knutsson wrote:

Barry wrote:
If you are re-linking your hotlinks, then you may lose any associated dimensions if you have added any to your main file.

Barry.
Ouch. No go then. Dot't dare to chance. We'll do the .mod next project.

The only way you will know for sure is to try it and see.
You don't have to save your main file if it doesn't work.
Or try it on a small test file.

I have not tried it but I am assuming because you are replacing one hotlink with another and that they could be totally different, there is no way that associated dimensions could stay.
Even if the MOD file is based from the original PLN that was hotlinked so they are essentially the same, I am guessing that associated dims will be lost.

Barry.

It sounds very logical

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 12:43:29 GMT

No worries If you try on a separate copy of the project

It is always tricky to handle dimensioning out of hotlinks. We usually put as much dimensioning in hotlinks. And limit dimensioning is the main file since they just vanish from time to time when you reload hotlinks.

You need to keep in mind that mod dosent contain sections, elevations, maps, layouts, etc only pure 3d model and information on plans. This might influence the workflow. For example, where are you drawing Sections and Elevations. Since mods are way smaller than pln It's usually better to use them on bigger projects since the opening time of each mod I much smaller than .pln with the same model.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 03 May 2019 17:47:05 GMT

kzaremba wrote:
It is always tricky to handle dimensioning out of hotlinks. We usually put as much dimensioning in hotlinks. And limit dimensioning is the main file since they just vanish from time to time when you reload hotlinks.

Next project: the way around that is to place room-equipment-etc. dimensions in the module and only overall dimensions in the main file (just as you are doing), but when those overall dimensions refer to a module or hotlinked pln element associate them instead to an ad hoc local shocking pink hotspot —which will not disappear when things change in the module or the module itself changes, and you can still move around without losing dimensions strings when things move around.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 03 May 2019 20:35:10 GMT

Also you can try using GOs with a rule for Dims=Static to highlight that the dimension was not to the "pink" spot.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Anonymous — Mon, 13 May 2019 09:59:38 GMT

ejrolon wrote:
Also, you can try using GOs with a rule for Dims=Static to highlight that the dimension was not to the "pink" spot.

Very interesting thought. Are you sure that dimensions are becoming static when they miss point form hotlink? I did some quick test but this prop is not available for selection tool.

Ignacio wrote:
c local shocking pink hotspot —which will not disappear when things change

By pink spot, you mean Hotspot (Active Point) tool? This approach is ok but you still have to manage changes in dimensioning. Which is in some cases harder to spot than the whole chunk of dimensions.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Eduardo Rolon — Mon, 13 May 2019 10:59:36 GMT

IIRC on a update the dimension can become static.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Anonymous — Mon, 13 May 2019 11:51:52 GMT

ejrolon wrote:
IIRC on a update the dimension can become static.

Thanks. I will do some testing. This might be a way to identify those that are modified during an update.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 13 May 2019 12:01:24 GMT

kzaremba wrote:

Ignacio wrote:
c local shocking pink hotspot —which will not disappear when things change
By pink spot, you mean Hotspot (Active Point) tool? This approach is ok but you still have to manage changes in dimensioning. Which is in some cases harder to spot than the whole chunk of dimensions.

If overall dimensions don't change, there is no need to manually update that necessarily 'static' (unlinked to module) dimension point even if the module element changes or the hotlink gets redirected. And there is no way out of having to manually manage that dimension point if you want it to allow that hotlink to get redirected or that overall dimension to change, so the question is how to best manage that situation.

Attachment shows screenshots with no GOC on the left and static highlighter GOC on the right; bright hotspot, on the same string a non-associated point without pink hotspot just for illustration, and two associated points. The very visible bright pink hotspot makes it obvious the dimension is tied to it and not to the overlapping element in the module, so it makes things easier to handle, regardless of GOCs; and it tells you which is is the point that needs to be manually managed (see attached; GOC will highlight the whole string, and will still not tell you which is the static point). That bright hotspot is a drafting element doing the job the module element cannot do on the host file, not a quality control aid such as that GOC.

Things would still work with that overall-dimension-helper hotspot in the module. But managing that would be trickier, because the person working on the module might not remember the purpose of that hotspot and delete it during cleanup. That hotspot should best be on the same file and layer as the overall dimension. One will not need that hotspot the day the AC dimension tool offers the option of assigning a custom screen-only marker to static dimension points.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Anonymous — Tue, 14 May 2019 12:37:30 GMT

Ok, I found it. The naming convention of those props is sometimes confusing

I have tried to replicate situations when we lose dimensions but I didn't succeed. However, if I deleted elements and associated dimensions stayed active anyway. I assumed that most situation like this is related to change of element GUID in the hotlinked file. It would be good to know how AC associates dimensions to element maybe there are some possibilities to avoid operation that breaks the connection between Element and Dimension (for sure Create, Delete, Split does).

I really don't see the benefit of the hotspot. I'd rather double check dimensions when 2d drawings are about to be published. Since possibilities of editing Dimensions improved you can skip hotspot's imo.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Ignacio Azpiazu — Wed, 15 May 2019 12:08:20 GMT

kzaremba wrote:
I really don't see the benefit of the hotspot. I'd rather double check dimensions when 2d drawings are about to be published. Since possibilities of editing Dimensions improved you can skip hotspot's imo.

The advantage of the hotspot is that it very visibly tells you which one is the traditionally-untraceably-static-now-associated-to-hotspot-instead dimension point, and reminds you that dimension point should tie to it and not to the module element. This is a very traditional procedure, used also say for top of wall level dimensions in sections and wall sections where you don't want your dimensions to disappear whenever a wall element gets replaced or a module redirected, stair section dimensions where you know your landing levels but will keep on changing the model elements, etc.

You might see the benefit the day you get tired of looking around for static dimension points (not strings) for which you have no visual feedback, forgetting and linking to some module element a dimension point which should remain 'static' (unlinked to module) and later discovering that it disappeared, some draftsman fixing that in a rush by adding a new dimension point to the module thus fixing nothing and creating more missing dimension points and burnt man hours for the future, checking and missing stuff. It shouldn't take long.

At least, this is the procedure I have long successfully used to avoid the problem you are having. You are free to explore any other path.

Re: switch from hotlinked .pln to .mod in the middle of a project?

Erwin Edel — Wed, 15 May 2019 14:56:38 GMT

We use hotspots for linked dimensions that are easy to adjust too for those cases where it is easy for the link to break.

They're also great for acting as stand in for the grid with repeating modules, since you don't want the grid in your modules, but you might want a dimension string in there.