topic Re: Solid Element Operations in Project data & BIM

Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Fri, 26 May 2023 13:30:46 GMT

I am a new comer to this great operation. But my question is this.

When undertaking the process there are two options given, whether the 'target' inherits the attributes of the operator or uses (keeps) their own. After undertaking many 'subtractions' with the targets inheriting the attributes of the operators, I now require that the targets regain their own, original attributes.

I understand I may not have explained myself clearly, but I'm hoping some people will know what I'm talking about.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:04:59 GMT

You need to cancel and redo the SEOs with the desired settings.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:09:29 GMT

Thanks. I was hoping there may be a quick switch or something as I have undertaken 50+ operations.

Oh well.......🙂

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:26:25 GMT

You said you wanted the targets to return to their original attributes.

I don't know if this is what you are referring to, but here is how I use SEO's.

I put the target on its layer, and I put the operator on a different layer which will be turned off. When looking in 3D mode, you will see the target after the SEO operation.

If you want to return the target to its original attributes, simply delete the operator on the hidden layer, and the target is restored to where you first started.

Grant

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:41:01 GMT

Yes, I also hide the operator on a different layer to keep void/subtracted area open.

However, where walls have been cut through, say glass, the edges of where the wall has been cut takes on the attributes of the operator ( when box ticked) . So, unless you use a glass operator, the edges will be different. The only other way is to request that materials keep their own attributes.

This all makes sense looking back and I'm just hoping there may be a way to escape re-doing all the operations and get the edges of the glass to be glass and not any other material.

Thanks for you input though

Re: Solid Element Operations

James Murray — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:44:45 GMT

If you selected 'Inherit attributes', you can change the attributes (pens, materials) of operators and their effects will update.

Helps sometimes. With 50 ops, there is a do-over in your future I fear.

Group the operators of a given operation type (eg subtract up), for a given target, and you can redo the op more easily.

I do this with the slabs I use to subtract up from my site mesh. If I have to add a slab, or split one, I simply add it to the group and do the op over. Not bad. Remember to use ungroup/group so your group nesting doesn't get out of hand.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:05:06 GMT

I fear there is a do-over looming too!

Thanks for the words of advice.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:03:03 GMT

James wrote:
If you selected 'Inherit attributes', you can change the attributes (pens, materials) of operators and their effects will update.

I've got a curvy GDL object (profiler-like extrusion) that cuts the ends of a bunch of beams ... and regardless of the attributes of the beams or the object, or 'inherit' or not, the cut surface is what looks like whitewash, not the wood material of the objects involved. Re-did the SEO several times. No joy.

Ever run into something like that and find a solution?

Thanks,
Karl

Re: Solid Element Operations

Djordje — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:46:32 GMT

Karl wrote:
I've got a curvy GDL object (profiler-like extrusion) that cuts the ends of a bunch of beams ... and regardless of the attributes of the beams or the object, or 'inherit' or not, the cut surface is what looks like whitewash, not the wood material of the objects involved. Re-did the SEO several times. No joy.

Hmmmm ... screen shot, please?

Re: Solid Element Operations

James Murray — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:36:04 GMT

Karl wrote:
(profiler-like extrusion) that cuts the ends of a bunch of beams ... and regardless of the attributes of the beams or the object, or 'inherit' or not, the cut surface is what looks like whitewash, not the wood material of the objects involved.

I just tried it with an EXTRUDE, and the material inherits correctly and updates if I change it. Works whether the cutter is on a wireframe layer or not.

Subtracting down didn't work, it just did a regular subtract. Subtracting up worked. SEOs still have a lot of glitches where objects are concerned. A couple more:

I was trying to teach my steel beam to cut its own beam pocket in wall, when I noticed it would only subtract down, not up. Note this is the opposite of the behavior of the beam above!

Objects with macro calls won't subtract.

A PRISM only cuts when its Z axis is parallel to the subtraction extrusion direction. In other words, they need to be 'right side up'. BPRISM, however, will cut sideways.

SEOs are almost there, but they need to be watched.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:50:42 GMT

Thanks very much for trying to replicate, James ... and for noting the other problems (which I hope GS is taking note of).

Attached is a screenshot (OK, Dj! 🙂 ) and notes showing the problem I've seen where the target never keeps its own material.

Very strange.

Karl

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:36:11 GMT

Karl,

This may have no effect on your problem, but I notice that the right hand surface (in your image) of the operator is coplanar with the end of the target. In my experience this sort of thing can lead to problems. I can't imagine why it would mess with the materials though.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 13 Mar 2004 03:16:24 GMT

Matthew wrote:
This may have no effect on your problem, but I notice that the right hand surface (in your image) of the operator is coplanar with the end of the target. In my experience this sort of thing can lead to problems. I can't imagine why it would mess with the materials though.

Thanks, Matthew. I had thought of that and moved the operator outside of the volume of the beam (little to the right and a little bit down) to see if that made a difference ... although inconvenient compared to using the snap points. But, alas, no difference at all. In fact, all but the first row of images are from the tests done with that positioning. Sigh.

Karl

Re: Solid Element Operations

LiHigh — Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:56:51 GMT

I've inserted PLN(1) into PLN(2) as module, but all the SEO done on PLN(1) no longer have any effect.
Is this a bug or I've missed something?

Re: Solid Element Operations

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:22:11 GMT

LiHigh wrote:
I've inserted PLN(1) into PLN(2) as module, but all the SEO done on PLN(1) no longer have any effect.
Is this a bug or I've missed something?

I think it is a 'feature'. At present AFAIK, if you copy elements involved in SEOs, the elements are copied, but not the associated operations. [THIS IS NOT TRUE - see Matthews correction.] If you merged PLN1, then that is probably being treated as if it were a copy. I assume that hotlinking works though?

Let us know about the module hotlink vs merge issue ... and add thoughts and a vote to a wishlist item that you reminded me to add here:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=10416#10416

Thanks,
Karl

Re: Solid Element Operations

Anonymous — Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:16:57 GMT

Karl wrote:
I think it is a 'feature'. At present AFAIK, if you copy elements involved in SEOs, the elements are copied, but not the associated operations.

I beg to differ Karl. I have copied elements and had the SEOs remain intact, or more accurately, be copied as well. I have been working with some interior trim elements and copied an entire room including the library parts I use to cut raised panels into the walls. The new room copied perfectly including the panel cuttings.

Perhaps you mean that copied elements do not retain their relationship to the original operator (or target) elements. This is, of course, as it should be.

Re: Solid Element Operations

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:18:45 GMT

Matthew wrote:
I beg to differ Karl. I have copied elements and had the SEOs remain intact, or more accurately, be copied as well.

You're right. I was wrong. Must have been remembering testing an early version or something. Sorry!

Karl

Re: Solid Element Operations

LiHigh — Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:11:37 GMT

Matthew & Karl,
No doubt about SEO remain intact after copied.
But, you haven't answer my Question: why previously performed SEO no longer have any effect when placed (as module) onto another PLN file?

Re: Solid Element Operations

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:45:24 GMT

LiHigh wrote:
Matthew & Karl,
No doubt about SEO remain intact after copied.
But, you haven't answer my Question: why previously performed SEO no longer have any effect when placed (as module) onto another PLN file?

Sorry about the digression.

I just did a simple test with a mesh and slab, selected both, saved as MOD, opened a new file, placed the module (hotlink) and also merged it. The SEO was retained in both cases.

If you just open your MOD, or merge it, is the SEO in effect? I wonder if all elements involved in the operation weren't saved to the MOD perhaps. If they were, and it merges correctly but does not hotlink, then it may well be a file to send to GS tech support.

Karl

Re: Solid Element Operations

LiHigh — Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:43:00 GMT

Karl wrote:

I just did a simple test with a mesh and slab, selected both, saved as MOD, opened a new file, placed the module (hotlink) and also merged it. The SEO was retained in both cases.

If you just open your MOD, or merge it, is the SEO in effect?
Karl

I believe SEO won't works if the targets and Operators are on different story.
But by merging, no problems.
Karl, any workaround?.........and do u know how i can have a module with all the stories' elements in it but still retain the original story informations?