topic Re: Duplicating pens? in Project data & BIM

Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Fri, 26 May 2023 13:23:00 GMT

So if I'm looking at my pen set, is there any way to inherit the exact attributes of lets say, pen 15, into pen 20?

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 16:50:40 GMT

I know you can simply type in the same width of the pen, but the color isn't something that is very easy to match up exactly.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Srinivas — Mon, 03 May 2010 17:21:25 GMT

Did you try Pen settings in the Attribute Manager, you can easily type in the RGB Colors there.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 17:39:43 GMT

Srinivas wrote:
Did you try Pen settings in the Attribute Manager, you can easily type in the RGB Colors there.

Awesome thank you, looks like thats what I was looking for.

Is it possible to save your pen sets as default so the same pens will always be there no matter what file you open? Along those same lines, where do you save your window settings and such so your workspace is the same for every file?

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 17:43:55 GMT

Now that I'm looking into this, is it at all possible to make it so each pen set is its own, rather than sharing properties with each one? In other words is it possible to use pen #5 on my elevation and not have it alter pen #5 on my floor plan? Or will they always work in-sync with each other?

Re: Duplicating pens?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 03 May 2010 17:53:23 GMT

Yes. Create as many pen sets as you need and save the appropriate one with the view. Redefine an existing view with a new pen-set.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 18:03:55 GMT

Erika wrote:
Yes. Create as many pen sets as you need and save the appropriate one with the view. Redefine an existing view with a new pen-set.

But how exactly do you make it so each one of my new pen sets won't inherit each other?

It seems like no matter what I do, say I change pen #5 on my elevations, even though its a different pen set it'll still change pen #5 on my floorplans.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 03 May 2010 18:22:23 GMT

Options> Element Attributes> pens and colors

change pen 5 for example and then click "store As" button and create a new penset titled e.g. "Elevations".

Then click on the Elevation in question in your view map, open the settings for this view, and change the penset assigned to this view.

Now this new penset is assigned to the elevation and your floor plan pen set stays assigned to the floor plan.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 18:22:23 GMT

I think what the main issue is, is there a way you can change your symbol or uncut line weight on your elevations for example, without it changing your symbol or uncut line weight on your floorplan?

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 18:52:06 GMT

Erika wrote:
Options> Element Attributes> pens and colors

change pen 5 for example and then click "store As" button and create a new penset titled e.g. "Elevations".

Then click on the Elevation in question in your view map, open the settings for this view, and change the penset assigned to this view.

Now this new penset is assigned to the elevation and your floor plan pen set stays assigned to the floor plan.

Okay correct me if I'm wrong,

Say I have a wall that shows up in my South and East Elevation and I want its line weight to be different for each one..

South is on penset 1 and East is on penset 2..

I change the wall in South to pen 5 (within penset 1)

Now I have to go into my pen set 2 settings and change pen 5 to something different so they won't look the same in each elevation EVEN though they are on different pen sets?

If this is true, I want to know if there's a way to avoid it, because maybe its just me, but it seems confusing this way.

Is there a way where you can do the above, working with the same wall in each elevation, and change its uncut line weight in the South Elevation to pen 5, and change its uncut line weight in the East Elevation to pen 6??

Re: Duplicating pens?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 03 May 2010 20:55:51 GMT

Ah, that is a different question.
The program will not adjust pen weights based on how far away an element is from the marker cutting plane. You can set what is called a marked distance line on the elevation marker settings and then have the option of a pen for all elements beyond.

You can also use the fill tool or lines to make more distance distinctions.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Mon, 03 May 2010 21:24:28 GMT

Erika wrote:
Ah, that is a different question.
The program will not adjust pen weights based on how far away an element is from the marker cutting plane. You can set what is called a marked distance line on the elevation marker settings and then have the option of a pen for all elements beyond.

You can also use the fill tool or lines to make more distance distinctions.

I really like the option to be able to set all uncut lines to one line weight without the hassle of going into individual object settings! Thank you for that. Using that, I can set it to the lightest line weight I plan on using, then I can proceed to using fill and lines in order to show my darker ones, works out pretty well.

I think I understand how the different pen sets work, but to be honest I dont really understand too much of why you would use different ones because it seems like I run into so many issues. When I make each one of my elevations have different pen sets, it seems like I'll have to make every single object within my model be set to its own pen, so then I can set how I want that pen to be displayed in each elevation. I say that because if I give too many objects the same pen, and try and set how its displayed in each elevation, the pen weights just end up getting displayed in the wrong areas.

Anyway, I like your suggestion for setting all uncut lines and then just using the line tool.. it seems a lot less confusing and more straight forward. I would like to try and master using the different pen sets though if its possible.

Re: Duplicating pens?

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 03 May 2010 23:54:21 GMT

allegronea wrote:
Is there a way where you can do the above, working with the same wall in each elevation, and change its uncut line weight in the South Elevation to pen 5, and change its uncut line weight in the East Elevation to pen 6??

No, it does not seem you understand yet what Erika is trying to say about how pen sets work. You're making a very simple concept much more difficult...

The uncut line would always be pen 5 (sic) ... but that pen would display differently in different pen sets depending on your needs.

That said: you should not be using and modifying pens 1 through 10 for your non-library elements, as those are the default pens used throughout the library. If you change them, then your library parts will all display differently as well.

Stay clear of pens 1 through 10 and pens 19 (international) and 91 (US).

The most general method of managing pens is to assign pens by function. So perhaps pen 23 (e.g.) is your wall contour line. That pen might be a color for your working views and yet different for your different drawings - perhaps black for most drawings and gray for certain drawings. The weight might change based on the drawing type or scale. You might have a pen set for elevations, presentation plans and enlarged wall sections that has pen 23 as a heavier weight than it appears in the pen set that you assign to key plans, electrical plans, etc.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Tue, 04 May 2010 15:38:35 GMT

Karl wrote:
allegronea wrote:
Is there a way where you can do the above, working with the same wall in each elevation, and change its uncut line weight in the South Elevation to pen 5, and change its uncut line weight in the East Elevation to pen 6??
No, it does not seem you understand yet what Erika is trying to say about how pen sets work. You're making a very simple concept much more difficult...

The uncut line would always be pen 5 (sic) ... but that pen would display differently in different pen sets depending on your needs.

That said: you should not be using and modifying pens 1 through 10 for your non-library elements, as those are the default pens used throughout the library. If you change them, then your library parts will all display differently as well.

Stay clear of pens 1 through 10 and pens 19 (international) and 91 (US).

The most general method of managing pens is to assign pens by function. So perhaps pen 23 (e.g.) is your wall contour line. That pen might be a color for your working views and yet different for your different drawings - perhaps black for most drawings and gray for certain drawings. The weight might change based on the drawing type or scale. You might have a pen set for elevations, presentation plans and enlarged wall sections that has pen 23 as a heavier weight than it appears in the pen set that you assign to key plans, electrical plans, etc.

Cheers,
Karl

Alright I see, so whatever # pen you assign to a certain object, its going to stay that way no matter what view you are using, but you can change how that pen # appears in each view.

Is there a way you can set what pens you want to appear on say your wall cut lines, before you draw them? Or are all pen changes made after something is drawn?

Sorry for the confusion by the way. I've been using ArchiCAD since last year when I was introduced to it through an elective class. Once I gave it a go I realized the huge advantages of using it over AutoCAD.. but still getting used to learning the right ways to do things rather than the "work-arounds".

Re: Duplicating pens?

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 04 May 2010 16:06:37 GMT

allegronea wrote:
Is there a way you can set what pens you want to appear on say your wall cut lines, before you draw them? Or are all pen changes made after something is drawn?

For the most productivity, you would not be changing much of anything after it is drawn. Each tool has default settings that 'stick' with the tool when the file is saved. Thus, part of creating a custom template is going through each tool and setting default pens, fills, materials etc for everything according to your needs.

But, of course, you will model many different kinds of walls. This is where you move beyond just the tool defaults to Favorites, which also memorize these things. (Or you can use 'visual favorites', where you use the eyedropper to pick up the attributes of existing building elements which switches the tool to whatever created the element and with all matching settings.)

HTH,
Karl

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Tue, 04 May 2010 18:03:19 GMT

Karl wrote:
For the most productivity, you would not be changing much of anything after it is drawn. Each tool has default settings that 'stick' with the tool when the file is saved. Thus, part of creating a custom template is going through each tool and setting default pens, fills, materials etc for everything according to your needs.

But, of course, you will model many different kinds of walls. This is where you move beyond just the tool defaults to Favorites, which also memorize these things. (Or you can use 'visual favorites', where you use the eyedropper to pick up the attributes of existing building elements which switches the tool to whatever created the element and with all matching settings.)

HTH,
Karl

Ah, alright then I see where your coming from. So a lot of this has to come from experience with your line weights and more importantly experience with your plotter and how it prints those line weights.. once that is figured out you can really get a handle on how things will be printed and what settings you can make before hand as your default.

Once I start my next project I'll try out making a pen set for each one of my views since my current one is rather unorganized and miscellaneous.

One more question now that I think of it. In order to make a new pen set, do you have to change a current pen within an existing pen set in order to overwrite an existing or make a new one? Thats fine.. wasn't sure if there was a way to make a new one from scratch without using an existing template. It would be nice to start my own.

And say I want to make my floor plan cut walls that are currently pen 5 on my first floor plan grey on my second floor plan. Would you advise making an entirely new pen to use for your walls? I ask this because if I'm currently using a pen that I use fairly frequently and change it to display differently on a different view... when I go to use that pen once again on the view that I altered it.. it obviously isn't the same pen anymore.

Hopefully that wasn't confusing, but I was just wondering if you would suggest making a new pen for each time you want to make the same objects in different views, different line weights.

Thank you very much for your replies, appreciate the feedback.

Regards,

Anthony

Re: Duplicating pens?

Erika Epstein — Tue, 04 May 2010 23:06:47 GMT

allegronea wrote:
In order to make a new pen set, do you have to change a current pen within an existing pen set in order to overwrite an existing or make a new one? .

Once you change anything in a penset, even one pen color note that the name of the active penset is now CUSTOM. This means that at any point when you want to save changes you have made click on the STORE AS button. You will then have the choice to overwrite an existing penset or give it a new name starting a new penset.

allegronea wrote:
And say I want to make my floor plan cut walls that are currently pen 5 on my first floor plan grey on my second floor plan. Would you advise making an entirely new pen to use for your walls? I ask this because if I'm currently using a pen that I use fairly frequently and change it to display differently on a different view... when I go to use that pen once again on the view that I altered it.. it obviously isn't the same pen anymore.
Anthony

To reinforce the solution, you must
1. make a new penset when you change anything about one or more pens in a penset
2. Redefine the view(s) changing the penset of the view to this new penset.

Your example of having a different pen color for different floors, well I can't help asking WHY? That aside, you could either make separate pensets for each floor, or use a different pen for the second floor walls.
But, I am back to wondering WHY you want different colored walls for each floor/story?

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Wed, 05 May 2010 15:21:12 GMT

Erika wrote:
Your example of having a different pen color for different floors, well I can't help asking WHY? That aside, you could either make separate pensets for each floor, or use a different pen for the second floor walls.
But, I am back to wondering WHY you want different colored walls for each floor/story?

I guess I should have used a different example.. that is by no means what I wanted to do.. it was just something easy to interpret to you in terms of what I was trying to do (in a general sense). However, when this situation actually would apply to myself, it would be if my first floor plan is new construction and my second floor is existing. Existing floors I would want to change my cut line to something grey, leaving anything related to first floor construction that is on the second floor plan as the original, dark cut line (such as 'open to below' areas or columns continuing up through both floors.. things of that nature.)

Anyways I'm rambling a little.. but thank you so much again for replying to my posts.. you have no idea how much it helped! Greatly appreciate it and I look forward to starting my next project using well organized line weights!

Regards,

Anthony

Re: Duplicating pens?

Erika Epstein — Wed, 05 May 2010 15:47:59 GMT

Yet again, now this is a different question. It would have saved a lot of time if you had just posted what you were really trying to do.

When you want to differentiate between existing, demo and new walls, the convention is to do that with different wall types and/or settings. For example existing walls to remain might have a tone in the wall. Demo walls might be the same except the line type is dashed.
Check out graphic standards, they have a students version, or ask your professor...

Re: Duplicating pens?

Anonymous — Wed, 05 May 2010 16:39:36 GMT

Speaking of graphic standards I'm still using the 9th Edition, looking to get the upgrade. 11th the latest? And is the CD-ROM 4.0 equal to 11?

Anyone know if a downloadable version is available?