topic Re: Production issues on a subdivision in Project data & BIM

Production issues on a subdivision

tsturm — Fri, 31 Jan 2025 14:20:14 GMT

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle a subdivision project?

We are working on a project which has 12 houses. For the most part they are all the same. The problem is the differences of plans and elevations. All the homes will use the same details, same window/door schedules and wall sections.

Where we are having some dispute in the office is how to set up the production of the project. Some are talking about a PLN for every house. Some want to use a file to hold the common details and use holders to reference those common details. And some want to use modules of each house into a central file which has all the common details in it. The problem lies in using the Auto Label of drawings in Plotmaker. If we just hand wrote in the drawing, I am sure this would all not be a problem.

I have the site plan all worked out using hotlinked drawings. I just cannot figure out the best way to work on all the houses and the differences between them.

anyone have any suggestions on this model type?

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

TomWaltz — Tue, 23 May 2006 16:20:57 GMT

K&A does this all the time.

The general approach is:
1) a PLN with all unit types and common details in it. Each story of the PLN matches one story of a Unit. These are published to .MOD files to allow for a stripped-down version of each unit (sans dimensions and notes) to be placed into the buildings. Anything and everything that repeats goes into this file.
2) a PLN for each building, to generate elevations and sections
3) a single LBK

As for the detail linking, we just enter the text manually as late in the project as possible. I've seen some people get around it with a general note "See Sht A12 for details" or something like that on their sections. It's cheating, but it works.

I can only imagine the performance issues of linking every house into one PLN....

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

tsturm — Tue, 23 May 2006 16:45:00 GMT

Tom

I have done this type of referencing in an apartment complex. But we are doing a housing complex of 12 separate duplexes. The Units are joined in different fashions so that the roofs and elevations are unigue in every case.

what I am hearing is do the details in a separate file. Use detail keys that are manually typed in. Do not rely on Plotmaker to do the numbering for you.

anyone else with a recommendation?

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

TomWaltz — Tue, 23 May 2006 17:16:52 GMT

tsturm wrote:
Tom

I have done this type of referencing in an apartment complex. But we are doing a housing complex of 12 separate duplexes. The Units are joined in different fashions so that the roofs and elevations are unigue in every case.

Most of the projects were duplexes or flat/townhouse combinations.

The details are not really in a separate file. They are in the same file as the units.

Like I said, anything that repeats goes in with the units. That may mean that that MODs only contain the interiors of the units and a couple exterior walls with windows or porches.

I've seen some jobs that had a separate porch module, others that had only interiors in the modules because the connections and variations were so odd.

To handle some variations, you can use Layer Combinations of different exterior walls to make multiple exterior conditions with the same interior. Since they are publishing to MOD, each MOD ends up with different content.

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

tsturm — Wed, 24 May 2006 11:43:08 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:

The details are not really in a separate file. They are in the same file as the units.

Like I said, anything that repeats goes in with the units. That may mean that that MODs only contain the interiors of the units and a couple exterior walls with windows or porches.

If the details are not in a separate file, then how do you handle getting them into each PLN file for the production set?

If you are copying them in, then what happens to the links for the detail windows? Do you then just use the detail marker to mark the locations and there is no true detail cut anywhere? I suppose that once you figure it out then there would be no need to have the actual model location to work again from.

When you are using MODs, are you really saving them out as .MOD files or just using the attach drawing feature like a XREF?

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

TomWaltz — Wed, 24 May 2006 14:11:49 GMT

tsturm wrote:
If the details are not in a separate file, then how do you handle getting them into each PLN file for the production set?

They are never copied into each PLN. They are just placed into the LBK.

If you are copying them in, then what happens to the links for the detail windows? Do you then just use the detail marker to mark the locations and there is no true detail cut anywhere? I suppose that once you figure it out then there would be no need to have the actual model location to work again from.

Since the company does so many of this type of projects, very few new details are cut from the model. Most are from the office detail library

When you are using MODs, are you really saving them out as .MOD files or just using the attach drawing feature like a XREF?

The units, with their appropriate layer combinations, are saved as View Sets and published to MOD en masse. Like I said before, this allows you to make several exterior layers that all wrap around the same interior. You can also dimension, note, and cut interior elevations from the original units and just turn those layers off before you publish to MOD.

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

Rick Thompson — Wed, 24 May 2006 14:46:04 GMT

One consideration is if you are trying to pull material takeoffs. What you describe is pretty much all I do. I started having a base file and different elevation treatments with layer combinations. It worked, but I soon realized how much harder it was keeping things straight, and forget material list. I fully develop the base model (fully, which is not really reality) and duplicate the file and modify it for exterior variations.. as well as a basement version. That too is hard with layers, but possible... just too much confusion and with inherent weaknesses. You can copy/paste to update pretty easily.

I have one file I keep all details in, including sheet notes and title blocks. This makes updating and in ac10 much easier. In ac10 you simply have that detail file available and drag those details off onto the sheet in the open project file. I work with small houses, so the set is small enough I don't worry about detail numbers. I generally place foundation details on the foundation sheet.. etc, so that's a mute issue for me.

I would definitely recommend one pln per house plan. Not for your sake (but I feel it is the cleanest and least confusing solution for you too), but for the contractors. This should help considerably with printing and navigation for the poor people using the plans. If you do too much combining, then the person distributing the prints will split it up anyway and that's a quick path to confusion. And then there is the permitting, and revisions based on their individual whims.

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

tsturm — Wed, 24 May 2006 15:02:09 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
tsturm wrote:
If the details are not in a separate file, then how do you handle getting them into each PLN file for the production set?
They are never copied into each PLN. They are just placed into the LBK.

Since the company does so many of this type of projects, very few new details are cut from the model. Most are from the office detail library

This explains why you do not copy the details into the project PLN and you have to hand type the detail numbers. Your details are coming from a central location outside of the projects. A Office Detail Library.

TomWaltz wrote:
The units, with their appropriate layer combinations, are saved as View Sets and published to MOD en masse. Like I said before, this allows you to make several exterior layers that all wrap around the same interior. You can also dimension, note, and cut interior elevations from the original units and just turn those layers off before you publish to MOD.

Could you draw a diagram of the process to show how you are using the different exteriors with the different interiors and where everything lines back up to create building sections and exterior elevations.

I get the sense your projects are broken up into Shells and Interiors. Then you are just putting different interiors into different shells.

Our company does enough differnt work that we have not set up a central detail library. Our details tend to travel with the projects. However, in the case of this project, we are looking to use that type of system due to the number of buildings to use the same details.

I am just trying to find a way to make the coordination of the standard details more automated for each house.

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

TomWaltz — Wed, 24 May 2006 15:30:36 GMT

tsturm wrote:
This explains why you do not copy the details into the project PLN and you have to hand type the detail numbers. Your details are coming from a central location outside of the projects. A Office Detail Library.

Nope. It's just a really good "unit" template that is pre-stocked with details. It's all in the same PLN as the Unit Plans are.

Could you draw a diagram of the process to show how you are using the different exteriors with the different interiors and where everything lines back up to create building sections and exterior elevations.

I get the sense your projects are broken up into Shells and Interiors. Then you are just putting different interiors into different shells.

There is no "interior/exterior" division. There are either
(1) MODs placed for the parts that are typical, which are usually a combination of interior and exterior
(2) elements like roofs and foundatons that are not typical and are drawn/modeled "in place" in each house

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

tsturm — Thu, 25 May 2006 12:04:25 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
Nope. It's just a really good "unit" template that is pre-stocked with details. It's all in the same PLN as the Unit Plans are.

So the details in this Master PLN are all linked to the drawings, but none are actually cuts of the model, correct?

What type of system, I will ask, do you use to organize all these details? How do you pull from this master list for the details you really want to use? How are the actual detail windows labeled as this label can be changed once set in a view set. I have been trying different systems of numbering as I have found that each detail window needs a unique number. Names can be the same.

TomWaltz wrote:
There is no "interior/exterior" division. There are either
(1) MODs placed for the parts that are typical, which are usually a combination of interior and exterior
(2) elements like roofs and foundatons that are not typical and are drawn/modeled "in place" in each house

Do you MOD in the Houses to this Master PLN? Still not grasping how you are dealing with the exterior versus interior and the upgrade options on the houses. I think I get the part about options like porches, patios as additional MOD to the base house. But how about the House itself. Are you using different plans with the same shell?

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

tsturm — Thu, 25 May 2006 12:37:25 GMT

Rick

I agree that there should be one plan set both PLN and LBK for each house. Primarily for the reasons you mentioned. The Building Department and all those who are going to come and inspect as well as the various trades who will be building the houses.

How do you organize your details? I see by your screen shot you have many details set in your PLN. What method do you use to number them? I am refering to the master list, not the list which you alter in a view set.

did I read your message correctly that you keep all your variations in the same PLN?

Regards

Re: Production issues on a subdivision

Rick Thompson — Thu, 25 May 2006 13:49:13 GMT

I stopped keeping variations in one plan, for several reasons. I do a lot of material takeoffs, and sell cad files, both get extremely complicated if combined with variations. Also just the inherent weakness and propensity for human errors when handling variations with layering. The downside is realizing you had an error on the base plan so you have to open the following plans to correct, but that should be minor.. in theory:)

I do my detail numbering a bit unorthodox, but it works well enough for me (and a University of Fl professor used it as an example of good organization in a book he published.. so I feel justified:) Having all you details in one pln works for me in that I can handle variations extremely well with layering. I do stock plans, so I need easy access to variations. I can have a basic eave detail with layering turning on and off different pitches, exposed tails, boxed etc. That makes it easy to add variations. But that's my internal file so it doesn't confuse anyone else. I number them sorta logically, F1, F2, F3 etc for foundation.. and keep those details on the foundation sheet, not at the end of the drawing set which is more trouble for someone reading the plans flipping through pages to get a detail, even with page number referencing. It simplifies my work and the person reading the plan. I keep eave details by the building section(s).. etc. My sets are small however (10 sheets or less) .. not large commercial projects.

That screen shot is unique to AC10, that's why I posted it. From within 10 you are connected to other plns. Here I have the detail pln displayed while in another plan file. You simply drop the details onto the sheet. The same thing applies to lbks, but you are dropping them into the book from Finder (or whatever windows does). The details are simply organized by .. I'll just add a collapsed tree screen shot. In this screen shot I have a porch column. With layering I can turn parts on and off making different columns relatively easy, and saving the view. Having them all in one file makes placing them quicker and easier. (thanks to Erika for that inspiration:)