topic Re: Layer extension in Project data & BIM

Layer extension

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 14:37:09 GMT

Hi everyone,
I know it may sound like a silly question, but what is the goal of the layer "extension"?

Re: Layer extension

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:29:55 GMT

to group layers in order to filter by extension.

Examples: demo, existing, main, etc.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:40:44 GMT

Ok, but do people really use it?

Re: Layer extension

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:45:03 GMT

Depends on the project.

Re: Layer extension

Erika Epstein — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 16:25:46 GMT

I'd say absolutely. Using extensions gives you added filtering capabilities which is very important when setting up layer combinations.

You can use them sort by interior, exterior and site modeling elements, by type of drawing to be produced for annotation layers...

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 16:50:46 GMT

Thanks again.

I'll try and play with it to understand it better.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:50:19 GMT

Erika wrote:
I'd say absolutely. Using extensions gives you added filtering capabilities which is very important when setting up layer combinations.

You can use them sort by interior, exterior and site modeling elements, by type of drawing to be produced for annotation layers...

Same here. Could not live without them. Well, could actually, but would be a more miserable life.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 21:42:40 GMT

Erika wrote:
You can use them sort by interior, exterior and site modeling elements, by type of drawing to be produced for annotation layers...

It might be worth expanding on the methods available to 'sort' them as it isn't immediately obvious. You have the option to sort them alphabetically into groups of the same extension by clicking the word 'Extension' at the top of the layer list. In fact, you can order any of the columns in the Layer Settings dialog using this method and is very useful for adjusting more than one related layer at once.

You can further simplify the number of layers visible so that only one type of extension is displayed in the layer list. Do this by selecting one of the layers with an extension, then clicking the 'filter by extension' button and all other layers are temporarily hidden. Select 'Show all layers' to display them again.

As you can see from the image, I don't really use them to any extent, but this thread has prompted me to re-investigate them again!

Re: Layer extension

Link — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 00:38:03 GMT

I've included layer extensions to every layer in our company template.

My take is that extensions should not necessarily replace good layer naming & categorization conventions, but assist in filtering information in other ways.

For example we have extensions such as .M for (3D) model info, .A for (2D) annotation, etc. These can assist us filter information for calculation and schedules.

Our .L layers are for layout book specific layers - yes we have those too. And our .R layers are strictly for reference only and never get published in any format.

The best part about layer extensions for me is that it is generally VERY easy to see when rogue layers are introduced into a project.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 01:23:36 GMT

Hi Link

Can you expand on how you use layers in Layouts, as they are not saved like a View with a layer combination. How do you know what you're going to get and that you have the correct layers on?

And, do you have a layer extension for ALL layers? (Edit: re-read, I see you do)

I'm in the process of refining our office template (aren't we always?), and am considering a new approach to cover the differences needed for alteration work and new build. As you can see on the attached image, I have layers with EXTG or DEMO extensions, which, for new build work are not needed. These are preceded with a Z in their name to send them to the bottom of the layer list. If the job requires them, just delete the Z- from the beginning and they move to the appropriate order in the layer list, and co-ordinate with existing / proposed views. Does this seem feasible? Changing layer names is o.k. but changing layer combination names makes them "missing" in saved views (at least in AC11).

Feedback welcome.

Re: Layer extension

Link — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:48 GMT

Hi Stuart

Yes, everything has an extension. All the better for spotting layer pollution.

We use layout layers for all drawings, amendments, titleblock info and unfortunately some rare masking. I've set up titleblocks for past clients that show different logos and indeed completely different titleblock arrangements and styles using different layer combos. Eg. going from a 'budget look' to a 'premium look'. Just switch the layer combo before printing and voila, you have a smarter and more comprehensive set of documents. Sky's the limit, and I did discuss with GS saving layout views, but it would be too complex.

As for your Z-prefix + demo/extg extension, personally I like to see all the Existing items in one group and the Demolition items in another group. It's intuitive too especially for multiple users. (I actually have a rather complex intersection priority matrix I use to group similar building elements together, but that's another level on top of this one).

One of the real 'life-simplifying' tips (for lack of a better term) in using layers is hitting or holding down the key of the first letter of the layer to race to that part of the layer list. I like to hit E - to get to Existing and D to get to Demo.

IME it's also easy to manage and more consistent for the user if these layers are in the file at all times (as you've done), but another method is to save existing & demo layer combos, and all their layers, set with visibility, IPNs, locking, etc. Then save an aat file of them (both layers & combos in the same file) and delete them from your template. Then whenever you need them, first load (overwrite) the layers, then load (overwrite) the layer combos back into the current file and whooshka, they're there. Of course this takes plenty of consideration and is not without flaws, (eg. you should set your layer IDs for those layers to start at say 500 so as not to overwrite exisitng layers, but then any new layers will assume numbers higher than those, if they are indeed the highest, and merged layers will fill the holes).

It's similar to what you're doing now, but instead of being at the bottom of the list, they are simply not there at all. Having said all that, I eliminated this practice here, mainly because everything is pre-linked but also because I have a 'holeless' attribute ID structure to help manage attributes over multiple hotlinked linked files. but it could work for some people and/or simple projects.

So back to the original topic, why use extensions to do what good naming is meant to do? Maybe we're just over-thinking it all? It's probably why I decided to use them for non-display related purposes.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:45:30 GMT

Hi Link

Thanks for the feedback. Sorry to stray slightly off topic, but I'm wondering why you don't have different masters for different title blocks. We use alternatives for presentation drawings and construction documents, and even slight variances in style for personal preference (for presentation work). Still not too many to choose from even with setups for A3, A2 and A1 sheet sizes, about 10-12 in total. Layers in Layouts seem to be over complicating things to me. I put everything (revisions, revision clouds, masking) on Archicad layer, then I know it is always going to be there. (Here's where you ask me "what about if you don't want those things for a certain printout?")

Also, the "hit the key of the first letter" still works with my method, you just hit W for wall or F for Floors or Furnishings, then select the correct option (Existing / Proposed / Demo).

Anyway, all taken on board for consideration. Thanks again.

Re: Layer extension

Link — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 22:00:10 GMT

Hey Stuart

I'm not criticizing your method at all, just shedding light on various methods.

Usually Masters are enough to switch the titleboick info. The method I mentioned is actually designed for stock plans. Layer combo 1 was the budget set with drawings arranged differently on a particular style of master and layer combo 2 was for the premium set with different drawings (that were also on their own specific layers) arranged differently using another style of master. The client wanted to switch between the two with the click of a button and we achieved that. And since layer combos were specific for the layout book, switching them never interfered with the model. It may have limited use for custom house plans, but the possibilities to imagine something from the same idea is there!

So, what about if you don't want those things for a certain printout?
It is a valid question, and it's not just visibility that is my concern it's 'reservability'. When a project is teamworked amongst 10 people, one of them may want to reserve all the amendment notes (by layer) and another one the logos. We may not have that many layout book layers now, but who knows what might happen in the future, so I wanted to set the methodologies right from the start.

I doub there's a right or wrong answer, and like pensets, they work best when they work for you. It is good to hear and see different approaches though. Do you often sort by extension?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Layer extension

Barry Kelly — Fri, 04 Mar 2011 03:51:05 GMT

s2art wrote:
As you can see on the attached image, I have layers with EXTG or DEMO extensions, which, for new build work are not needed. These are preceded with a Z in their name to send them to the bottom of the layer list. If the job requires them, just delete the Z- from the beginning and they move to the appropriate order in the layer list, and co-ordinate with existing / proposed views. Does this seem feasible? Changing layer names is o.k. but changing layer combination names makes them "missing" in saved views (at least in AC11).

Feedback welcome.

Hi Stuart,
You shouldn't need to put the "Z-" before the layer names.
If you have the "DEMO" and "EXTG" extensions on these layers then you can sort the layer list by these extensions - just click the "Extension" field at the top of the list.
This will group all the layers for you to easily selct and delete those not needed.
This will avoid the need to rename the files.
Barry.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 20:11:40 GMT

Link wrote:
Hey Stuart

I'm not criticizing your method at all, just shedding light on various methods.
.....

I doub there's a right or wrong answer, and like pensets, they work best when they work for you. It is good to hear and see different approaches though. Do you often sort by extension?

Cheers,
Link.

Not seen as criticism, all good advice (which is why I asked the question).

And as we all know, with Archicad there are many ways to skin a cat. Meow.

I don't sort by extension very often, partly because our current template does not use them, which is why I was trying to come up with another method. In these tough times we seem to be doing more renovation work than new builds, so it becomes more relevant. I've only done a couple of projects with EXTG, DEMO and PROP extensions, and it has worked reasonably well, so wanted to incorporate into our template in a one-size-fits-all scenario (hoping its easier to maintain than different templates). But still a work in progress.

@ Barry - the Z just keeps them out of the way at the bottom of the list when you don't want them, such as when changing layer in the tool itself or the Edit Selection Set layer drop-down, when not sorted by extension.

Re: Layer extension

Link — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 21:32:17 GMT

Hey Stuart

Just keep in mind that you can only sort and filter by extension in the Layer Settings dialog box, nowhere else. Hence my initial comment about extensions not being a replacement for good layer naming conventions.

As you've probably noticed now your layering system is based entirely on existing/demo work, as far as extensions are concerned. They are kinda all or nothing that way, but at least it forces you to decide what's most important to you!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 21:54:24 GMT

Link wrote:
Hey Stuart

Just keep in mind that you can only sort and filter by extension in the Layer Settings dialog box, nowhere else. Hence my initial comment about extensions not being a replacement for good layer naming conventions.

Cheers,
Link.

Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make to Barry, not very clearly. Monday morning, pre-coffee.

Re: Layer extension

vfrontiers — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 00:57:18 GMT

Just wondering if there is a way to edit .aat files without archiCAD... I need to re arrange a bunch of layers and would prefer to essentially create my own internal ID (actually the numbers are just fine, it's the order that I want redone)..

Anyway... it seem whipping those thing in spreadsheet I could be done in a minute or two...

Conversly,and I will check this out, if I create an aat file and sort by Layer Name, then APPEND to another file, it should re-order them, right?

Re: Layer extension

Anonymous — Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:56:36 GMT

Do layers sometimes automatically give themselves extensions? I've got a bunch of layers with the "3D" or "mark" extension after them, and nobody is "fessing up" to giving them that extension...

Re: Layer extension

Erika Epstein — Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:08:00 GMT

No. More likely someone copy and pasted or merged from another file that had those layer names.