topic Re: Long term preservation of BIM models in Project data & BIM

Long term preservation of BIM models

stefan — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:22:58 GMT

Within the context of my academic research, I am working on collecting information and good practices considering strategies of preserving BIM models for the future.

These are the problems:

architectural projects last longer than the current product release cycles of 12 to 18 months.
compatibility between application versions is limited: e.g. you can open an r11 file into r12, but the library throws issues. You might load the r11 migration library alongside the regular r12 library, but what do you do when r13 is released?
how far can you go back? e.g. see http://www.archicadwiki.com/ArchiCAD%20versions
How does that work with libraries? Are archives usable in the long run? Can you properly load an r8.1 library in r12? And what happens the year after when r13 is released?
In how far are people concerned with the closed nature of the file format? Everything you created is in an undocumented format, only readable by a proprietary application?
Should you store complementary archive copies using Open formats, such as VRML and IFC?
Do you think having old PC's, with old versions of the OS and the CAD software might solve this? They will break down eventually and the old ArchiCAD software required another dongle, which you have delivered a long time ago to Graphisoft already, in return for a USB WIBU key.
Or virtualization? Virtual MS Windows with Windows NT or 2000 and an old ArchiCAD r6? And what about Macs? OS 8.6 inside the "Classic Environment" or in an emulation? I don't see "Classic" anymore on my iMac with Leopard. And surely there is no old Apple Bus connection (but I don't have the old dongle either). What happens when USB is replaced with something else? Firewire, parallel ports, serial ports etc... are already mostly gone these days.

Thank you for any feedback.

Remember: today, we can read stone engravings of thousands of years ago and paper documents of several hundred years old, but who can correctly read a CAD document from 10 years ago?

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:59:25 GMT

Hi stefan
I just had someone locally here, (who I considered fairly literate in file formats) scoff at the IFC as not being widely enough accepted to be of any long term solution.
That seemed out of touch with what I've been getting the gist off.

1. Was wondering what your opinion of IFC as staying power might be?
2. Could final filing of finished AC projects be best archived in IFC instead of Pla?
Thanks
Bier

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:00:40 GMT

Excellent questions!

In long term projects this is really, I could even say an issue.
100k+ sqm project originally started with r9 and currently in r11.
Not smooth at all but I think it will be easier in future.
Library issues must be solved by gs somehow anyway.

I have done my first ac jobs with 6.5 (ex acad user) and I do not even dream opening those.
If needed I'll be contacting reseller/gs.
Although I have saved all libraries since 6.5.

Archived with classic 2D formats (hpgl,dwg,ps) along with proprietary pla.
Old archive already moved once from CD to DVD/NAS, light checking of 'byte health' and possible conversions(like old wordperfect to something more neutral) if important enough project.
Needles to say but my first 6.5 projects belong the 'not so important' category...

Today IFC is used here frequently between disclipnies communication and could be one candidate.
IFC/IFCxml with 2D formats?
Bit more information than VRML and saved together with 2D PDF resulting informative documentation (and with proprietary format).

And what if we throw FM in the same soup?
Even longer stable needs than design community?

In my case is not rare that after odd 5-10 years we have a same building under design again. New owner/functions needs revising etc.

Digital archiving in general is bit grey area, I think.
How long media will last...
Stone sounds more and more appealing.
Practical, long lasting solution-> a Dream?

Forecasting, and specially future forecasting is difficult art.

Petri

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

stefan — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:56:43 GMT

Thank you both for your comments.

I believe that the software manufacturer could assist in at least supporting the long term survival of digital building models, but I fear that, unless end users (maybe enforced by their government) will put pressure upon the manufacturer, no one will care until it's too late...

My first (small) projects started in R6.0. They used a custom library by my local dealer, which was copy-protected. It did a check on the serial number of my hardware lock. Needless to say that while I still have the software, I can not properly open the projects, since the library check will not pass; the dongle used to be a LPT one, while my current dongle is a USB one using a different serial. A friend once helped my "hack" this to open it in r6.5. It more or less worked, thanks to the limitations in GDL.

Imagine to rely on plugins (which are not ported to recent ArchiCAD versions), encrypted library elements, elements tied to a particular serial number.
People move on, buy new machines, update to newer OS's and newer applications, but the projects are still very alive (e.g. like you illustrated with a revision after 5 years).

I even have problems properly loading my r10 and r11 projects in r12.

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

stefan — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:05:24 GMT

I've just read about:
http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/downloads/Fileconverter.html

Seems like standalone conversion programs (based on older ArchiCAD versions?) to migrate older files into the new formats. As these installations do not contain libraries, I wonder what will happen with the included libraries? And will the references to library elements keep referencing the old library objects or the updated ones?

Anyone tried these yet?

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

Greg Kmethy — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:24:02 GMT

stefan,

We are just working on that new page. Those are just standard ArchiCAD packages updated with the latest hotfix, and "pre-installed". You can just drop them in a folder, overcoming the troubles you face when installing old AC versions on Vista or Intel Mac. You can use these to re-save your ArchiCAd files, but they will not update the libraries. Old library parts are still supposed to work with current ArchiCAD versions, but if you continue work with them, it is always a good idea to update them. That process is described here: http://archicadwiki.com/Update%20library%20parts%20with%20missing%20GUID

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

stefan — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:29:57 GMT

gkmethy wrote:
stefan,

We are just working on that new page. Those are just standard ArchiCAD packages updated with the latest hotfix, and "pre-installed". You can just drop them in a folder, overcoming the troubles you face when installing old AC versions on Vista or Intel Mac. You can use these to re-save your ArchiCAd files, but they will not update the libraries. Old library parts are still supposed to work with current ArchiCAD versions, but if you continue work with them, it is always a good idea to update them. That process is described here: http://archicadwiki.com/Update%20library%20parts%20with%20missing%20GUID

Thank you for the clarification.

Any "advice" on the optimal process: replace old library parts with new versions? Or keep the old ones alive?

Because I wonder how far I can go back in ten years time? On the long run, it is very uncertain for me.

But I do applaud Graphisoft for trying to provide at least means to deal with older projects.

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

David Maudlin — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:14:41 GMT

stefan wrote:
Because I wonder how far I can go back in ten years time? On the long run, it is very uncertain for me.

I have been able to open and use version 4.1 projects (granted, need to open in 7 first, then open in later versions), and that is going back 16 years, so something is working. Depending on the work to be done, substituting library parts and other attributes may make sense to take advantage of the current features (doors could not be intelligently resized on version 4, so there was a 2'-0" door with frame, a 2'-0" door without frame, etc). I agree that this is an important issue, and would expect Graphisoft to provide a method to open old projects on current hardware and operating systems, whether by providing older versions that run on current systems, or a separate mini application to bring them forward.

My 2 cents,

David

edited for spelling

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:36:07 GMT

David wrote:
... I agree that his is an important issue, and would expect Graphisoft to provide a method to open old projects on current hardware and operating systems, whether by providing older versions that run on current systems, or a separate mini application to bring them forward.

This sounds like an Add-On opportunity. It is a critcal requirement for least-cost, least-effort forward migration of data-bearing objects, as is the migration of the data they carry or connect to. Unless this is pre-emptively and effectively dealt with by BIM authoring s/w developers, we will see articles in the press about "the hidden cost of BIM," and hear A/Es with enormous clout, howl.

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

stefan — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:41:50 GMT

I fear that many people see long-term preservation still most reliable in the form of DWG and PDF documents.

The migration from BIM models (from ANY application) between versions is problematic, to say the least.

And I strongly urge the Software Developers to take this as a task to solve in the (near) future.

What is the use of convincing everybody in the building industry of the virtues of BIM, if we don't consider the whole potential lifecycle of the model, far beyond the design-build stage.

Re: Long term preservation of BIM models

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:43:55 GMT

stefan wrote:
....
The migration from BIM models (from ANY application) between versions is problematic, to say the least.

And I strongly urge the Software Developers to take this as a task to solve in the (near) future.

What is the use of convincing everybody in the building industry of the virtues of BIM, if we don't consider the whole potential lifecycle of the model, far beyond the design-build stage.

Your last thought suggests something we wrote (and unpacked) for a client some years ago: "Managing the model is managing the building."

This was not subtle: it simply reflected the small insight that the model is essentially an avatar for the building, and as BIM software capabilities and hardware improve, the avatar will become more sophisticated and the correspondence between the building and the model will become more "thorough."

So I completely agree with Stefan: If we are to effectively manage & model the whole building-life-cycle, then we must certainly manage "the whole model-life-cycle."

Didrik