topic Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles in Project data & BIM

Everyday Problems and Struggles

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:53:16 GMT

Hey Guys,
I was wondering what types of problems everyone encounters with their users everyday? Or at least most days? What kinds of things do you find difficult to do in Archicad if you don't know it well? How do you help your users overcome these struggles.? Like Stairs and Curtainwall. Now I am not looking for solutions I was just thinking we could all start making a list and perhaps it would make it easier on all of use if we new what the common problems were. Then we can start talking about users. I'll Start with my list:

1. Stairs
2. Curtainwall
3. Creating Sections and Elevations
4. Detailing
5. Sloped Roofs
6. Dimensioning
7. Mesh Tool and Sitework
8. Elevators
9. Curving a Wall that Would be a Custom Profile
10. Columns, Beams, and Cross-Bracing
11. Cutting a Hole in a Slab
12. Linking one Detail to Multiple Tags
13. Custom Object Creationa nd Modification
14. Sun Screens
15. Curved Roofs
16. Flat Roofs with Tapered Insulation
17. Modifing Doors
18. Retaining Walls
19. Multiple Floor Heights on One floor Level (Multiple Stories or Single Story)
20. Coil Doors
21. Creating a Wall with Multiple Wall Segmetns and Removing the Extra Linework
22. Creating a Stair from Slabs witha Custom Railing
23. Stair Sections
24. Railings on a Balcony or Loft
25. Column Enclosures
26. Bemolition and Existing Building Work (Grayscale and Dashed)
27. Fire Rated Partitions (Priorites through Layer Control)
28. Screenwalls

That is my list so far. Anyone else have anything that they get asked about frequently be new or exisitng users that we think it might be good to document a best practice? Hopefully we can gather alot of information on this post then start answering.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:15:23 GMT

29. Reading the Manual/accessing the Help Menu

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

TomWaltz — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:57:59 GMT

If it makes you feel any better, I had most of those problems 4 years ago.. probably the biggest remaining one is demolition & rehab work. I could go for hours on how I handled some of these problems.

Someday over a beer we'll talk about all of them!

My general answer is "slow and steady progression over a few years". I was fortunate to lead an implementation that added 5 people at a time, approximately every 2 months. As one group got better and picked up more tricks, their wisdom & knowledge was added to the training of the next group. By the time the last group got trained, they were getting (what I thought) was really an amazing combination of technical instruction and real-world application.

I always knew that Archicad was a hybrid program, which would combine 3D and 2D elements to create a set of drawings. I encouraged people to model as much as they could effectively and always keeping an eye on editability.

Keep in mind K&A started on Archicad 8.0, which was much less capable than what you see in Archicad 10. I taught a lot of people how to build almost anything in the world with slabs, roofs, and meshes. Some days I think there is still a lot of validity to that method.

Sections were definitely tricky, since you have to know how to model, how to construct for real, and how to draft. You also need to know how to clean up material/surface connections.

I'm curious, what problems are you having with sloping roofs, detailing, and dimensioning?

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:37:56 GMT

As far as "detailing" is concerned, I have found that many have been so focused on the 3D-modeling aspect, that they have difficulty going back and relating to drawings in 2D (I, myself, remember using AC 14 years ago at which time resorting to using a "line" seemed a foreign concept).

I insist that everyone go through the "Detailer Tutorials" prior to creating wall sections and details.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Link — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:15:41 GMT

28 items is not so bad! I have been contacted by new clients with 10 times that!

Although some of yours (e.g. 4, 6, 7, 11, 15, 19, 24, 27) look like they could probably be addressed either here or with a little point in the right direction.

Gaining confidence and proficiency with ArchiCAD is usually just a matter of getting a good base training (which I'm sure you received given the company you work for), a good template system, practice and thinking outside the box.

Let us know if you want to hit that list.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:26:18 GMT

Link,
There are more 28 is all I could think of in about 10 minutes. I could answer most if not all of them. The reason behind the list is I am in the process of writing our guide book and in addition to standards we are going to document procedures. So I am working out a list of things I should cover in the book. So, what I was looking for from you guys is a list of things that I should make sure I get in the book.
We do get most of it covered in the training here, I am the one who does the training. But most people forget what they learned and they need to be showed again. The book will serve as a reference for those who can not get in touch with me or one of the iBIM Operations Staff. If you have any great ideas on how to do some of that stuff though feel free to post it or shoot me an e-mail I woul love to hear it.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Link — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:32:58 GMT

PivoArch wrote:
Link,
If you have any great ideas on how to do some of that stuff though feel free to post it or shoot me an e-mail I woul love to hear it.

Yes I do. I will PM you in the next few days.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

TomWaltz — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:55:11 GMT

Laura wrote:
As far as "detailing" is concerned, I have found that many have been so focused on the 3D-modeling aspect, that they have difficulty going back and relating to drawings in 2D (I, myself, remember using AC 14 years ago at which time resorting to using a "line" seemed a foreign concept).

I insist that everyone go through the "Detailer Tutorials" prior to creating wall sections and details.

What Detailer Tutorials are you using?

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

TomWaltz — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:56:14 GMT

PivoArch wrote:
There are more 28 is all I could think of in about 10 minutes. I could answer most if not all of them. The reason behind the list is I am in the process of writing our guide book and in addition to standards we are going to document procedures. So I am working out a list of things I should cover in the book. So, what I was looking for from you guys is a list of things that I should make sure I get in the book.
We do get most of it covered in the training here, I am the one who does the training. But most people forget what they learned and they need to be showed again. The book will serve as a reference for those who can not get in touch with me or one of the iBIM Operations Staff. If you have any great ideas on how to do some of that stuff though feel free to post it or shoot me an e-mail I woul love to hear it.

Do we want to do all 28 hear in one thread? Are there any you want to hit first?

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:04:55 GMT

We could get started here I guess. I would say Object Creation, Fire Ratings, and Demo with Existing are gonna the major ones.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

TomWaltz — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:18:55 GMT

PivoArch wrote:
We could get started here I guess. I would say Object Creation, Fire Ratings, and Demo with Existing are gonna the major ones.

OK... what are the problems you are having with them?

Of the 3, let's start off with Objects & Fire ratings, since they are probably the simplest. We'll get them out of the way first..... (demo could go on for a while!)

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:31:07 GMT

I wouldn't say we are having problems as much as I am looking for a best practice. What would be the best way to should users how to create and manipulate a custom object. What level of GDl should we get into if any and and what point should you use an object versus a module.
As for fire ratings that is probably gonna be the more complicated than you think due mostly to the complexity of the buildings we design and the codes that go along with them. So let me take a moment to explain how we would like to document a firewall and my theory on how to do that.
When we create what we call a code sheet we typically show a line of varying dashes that match the thickness of the wall on the play in a grey. Sort of like a poche with dashes. The different dashes would indicate a 1 hour wall or 2 hour and so on. These ratings sometime show on only the code sheets and sometimes on all disciplines sheets depending on the area of the world the building is being built in.
At the moment my theory on this is to build a composite with the dash in it, now the problem with this is that we do not want to show the rest of the composite on the code sheets (i.e. drywall or cmu). It would be greate if I could customize the model view options to make this work but I can't so....What I am thinking is to create a layer for fire rated partitions that would have walls on it with no height that would use a composite that would be only the dashed lines. Set said layer to a different priority than the regular walls so as not to effect clean ups. Then you layer sets to control the viewing of the walls on the varying sheets. The downside to this is that you must make sure to update the fire rated walls when you update the regular walls. This is not so different from our old way in autocad so it's not the end of the world.

Any thoughts?

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:30:41 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
What Detailer Tutorials are you using?

The "ArchiCAD 10 Detailer Users Guide" published by Graphisoft and the accompanying tutorials.

PivoArch -- Another one for your list: SEOs

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Andy Thomson — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:46:56 GMT

PivoArch,

I am intimitely familiar with your fireplan workflow crisis. We require to do exactly the drawings you mention as part of our permit submissions, plans and sections, showing the rated assemblies with 1, 1.5, 2, 3hr dashed lines with ghosted backgrounds.

ArchiCad used to have a model-view option (formerly known as Display Options) that allowed the walls to be seen as their reference lines only, presumably for siteplans only. I had hoped that in future, these reference lines could also be shown with the respective DASHED lines we need for the given, fire-rated composites we specify for each job.

However, we no longer even have the show reference line only option anymore - BUT! Composites allow us to used dashed lines (why only 15?? Why aren't all linetypes available as skin lines?).

Given the ideas gleaned from the pen-table thread, I am going to make a new fireplan pen table, that will ghost everything but the centreline of the composite structures - I will be splitting the core into two halves, divided by the fire separation line (see screenshot) - just starting to work on this now...

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Andy Thomson — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:00:28 GMT

It worked! So I use the Ghost penset (everything ghosted except this fat FIRE pen, and change the model view options as shown, no need for duplicate walls or linework. Of course the red will print black when the sheets plot.

The question is how to make this line disappear in normal construction prints. Making it grey will still kinda show, unless the particular composite in question has an empty core fill, where the FIRE pen turns white. - Aha. Skin 'Hide' in the composite settings!!!, and then just make sure your placed fireplans drawings do not update automatically.

A

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

TomWaltz — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:13:47 GMT

PivoArch wrote:
At the moment my theory on this is to build a composite with the dash in it, now the problem with this is that we do not want to show the rest of the composite on the code sheets (i.e. drywall or cmu). It would be greate if I could customize the model view options to make this work but I can't so....What I am thinking is to create a layer for fire rated partitions that would have walls on it with no height that would use a composite that would be only the dashed lines. Set said layer to a different priority than the regular walls so as not to effect clean ups. Then you layer sets to control the viewing of the walls on the varying sheets. The downside to this is that you must make sure to update the fire rated walls when you update the regular walls. .

I think the easiest way would be to embed the dashed lines in the composite like you were thinking, then have a different pen set for the Code Sheets than the others. Use a specific pen for the dashed lines.

Then, on the code sheets you could make that big fat weight and a 0 weight on every other sheet.

.... though I just noticed Andy said about the same thing

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Link — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:32:06 GMT

andyro wrote:
It worked! So I use the Ghost penset (everything ghosted except this fat FIRE pen, and change the model view options as shown, no need for duplicate walls or linework. Of course the red will print black when the sheets plot.

The question is how to make this line disappear in normal construction prints. Making it grey will still kinda show, unless the particular composite in question has an empty core fill, where the FIRE pen turns white. - Aha. Skin 'Hide' in the composite, and then just make sure your placed fireplans drawings do not update automatically.

A

It would be easier if you could do without the dashed line and just use color. It's more common to just assign specific pens for fire codes, that in the fire code plans show as color for the entire wall, and in other plans are just mapped to regular cut fill colors. See the attached image that shows an example of specific firecode pens in a template.

If you still wanted dashed lines, you could use this same technique to hide your dashed lines in regular plans. As you said map it to white, along with the composite's cut fill pen. Automatic update is fine - and recommended of course.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Andy Thomson — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:25:15 GMT

Link, fair enough (use colour, simple, easy), but that document set I referred to just cost the builder $14k (USD) to print - every set included the fire plans (I am always shocked and amazed at these printing costs). Colour was not an option. We have 4 linetypes for different ratings, and they print black - aka. inexpensively!). I would love to find a way to do this while preserving auto-updating.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

LiHigh — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:18:46 GMT

Wall accessories would be a good solution but NO curve wall.

I've an object(Wall accessories) which allow user to assign any line type drawn along the core axis and it's associated to wall. I don't have the object with me now; But if anyone is interested, I'll post it here later.

Re: Everyday Problems and Struggles

Andy Thomson — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:09:25 GMT

That sounds ideal. Please do post it.