topic Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks in Project data & BIM

Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Anonymous — Fri, 26 May 2023 07:03:17 GMT

Ok you master CADsters.....

How do we set up the story settings on a multi-building site plan using with hotlink *.pln's for each building?
The problem- all the different hotlinked modules/existing structures all have different story settings!
So when I add the modules, the stories are all messed up.

I know there is a setting somewhere (right?) to change this and preserve the story settings for the hotlinked *.pln's,
but I don't know where to find it.
I need to keep each hotlinked *pln true to it's own story settings.
Is there a trick here?

Thank you in advance!

J

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:42:59 GMT

JP-Design wrote:
How do we set up the story settings on a multi-building site plan using with hotlink *.pln's for each building?
The problem- all the different hotlinked modules/existing structures all have different story settings!
So when I add the modules, the stories are all messed up.

Hopefully, somebody else knows a trick that I have missed...and if not, hopefully there are not many stories to your buildings.

With the 'multistory' hotlink feature of 11 and above, the hotlinked buildings must each match the story structure of the master file into which they are linked. This actually worked for me for one project with 4 buildings and was really nice.

In your case, I would make the story settings of the master match the most complex of your buildings and do a multistory hotlink on that building. For each other building, you have to hotlink one story at a time into the correct story. When finished, enable grouping, and you'll be able to select each story of each of these buildings in the 3D window and drag it up or down until the buildings snap back together again. Once snapped together, select the entire building and drag it up or down as needed and place the assembly as desired on the site.

Hope that helps...see also this Wiki article if you haven't seen it already:
http://www.archicadwiki.com/Multistory%20Hotlinked%20Modules
also
http://www.archicadwiki.com/TechNotes/Simple%20Hotlink%20managing

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:03:58 GMT

Karl wrote:
Hopefully, somebody else knows a trick that I have missed...and if not, hopefully there are not many stories to your buildings.

I certainly don't. And I doubt that anyone else does either. This is my biggest disappointment with the multi-story modules. Another potentially great feature reduced to less than half of its usefulness for lack on this one feature (story deltas for multi-story hotlinks).

BTW: The only way right now to make the process fully automatic is to represent all stories of all buildings in all files. I have just done this on a small theatre/music building combo. Part of the trick here is to name the stories according to their use, such as: "COMMON Ground Floor", "BLDG-A First Floor", "BLDG-C&D First Floor" and so on...

This method is OK for small projects without too many variations in story heights but quickly becomes unmanageable in something like a large campus, but there can be troublesome side effects. Any library parts that depend on the story heights (such as some stairs) can get wrecked.

Karl: The problem with the method you suggest (as you probably know) is that the separate stories will lose any SEO relations between elements on different stories. Sometimes this can be fudged by doing operations on the placed modules but (besides not necessarily producing the desired results) it creates an abundance of relationships such that ArchiCAD starts to run like Revit.

Depending on the requirements there is always the old tried and true method (since AC4 if not earlier) of saving the buildings as library parts and placing them in the master site model for visualization. But of course you have to forgo niceties like layer control and, of course stories.

J: The one special case that can work the way you want is if your floor to floor heights match between the buildings. That is, if it is only the base elevations to sea level that vary from building to building. (It may also be manageable if this is largely true with only a few exceptions.) You can drag the entire multi-story modules up and down to their cerrect respective elevations.

That's all I have time for right now, but if anyone wants to hear more, come to my lecture in Nottingham next month. My main topic will be large project standards, management and coordination.

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:36:19 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Karl: The problem with the method you suggest (as you probably know) is that the separate stories will lose any SEO relations between elements on different stories. ...

Argh, right. Forgot about that major 'gotcha'. I was lucky and had the multistory hotlink work for my last project.

Is there an official wish poll for the multistory delta? Good idea - I'd vote 'essential'.

Thanks,
Karl

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:37:05 GMT

Karl wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Karl: The problem with the method you suggest (as you probably know) is that the separate stories will lose any SEO relations between elements on different stories. ...
Argh, right. Forgot about that major 'gotcha'. I was lucky and had the multistory hotlink work for my last project.

Is there an official wish poll for the multistory delta? Good idea - I'd vote 'essential'.

Thanks,
Karl

I'm pretty sure I said something about it in the 11 alpha/testing. I can't believe I haven't already created a wishlist topic for it yet. I'll see if I can find a spare moment (really slammed right now).

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:50:41 GMT

Thank you so far. I had some of these ideas in mind, based on experimenting. The sites are fairly small right now, but could turn into 20+ buildings in the future (European villages built on hills, developers who keep buying them up and want to change them, floors all over the place with no order because it's organic; buildings pilled on top of buildings....) W

---WAIT, ISN'T GRAPHISOFT BASED OUT OF HUNGARY, EAST/MID EUROPE???
(did I miss something or is Hungary like Denmark,- all flat?)

... Layers on/off is essential for visual representation for the clients- I don't want to have to explort (yes exPLORT) a bunch of renderings into a movie file or quicktime render, or powerpoint, but that actually might be the simplest method = import the different structures as library parts, with or without the various remodels showing, make a bunch of screen shots, and tough-luck clients if you want to see something I didn't think of or didn't have time to combo for various designs in one file or from every angle but one...

It sure would be a nice function to have this in the program, as the end result is ...

1) Sitting down with clients
2) Showing them the results of what we architects do: before and after with each addition and change (say, 30 different layer/layer states for various changes on a few different buildings on a multi-level site, since we're not all in Nebraska or Kansas, Dorothy).
3) They get to SEE what we architects do, and then CHOOSE.
4) WE get paid and then...
5) WE pay Graphisoft for their fine and awesome software and vow to continue being customers and buying updates *cough cough cough*.

But really in the end, it's convenience and client satisfaction. I think I can use something by ADOBE or MICROSOFT to do this, yeah? $800 out to them vs, Graphisoft.... Hmmmm..... How many people want this function in AC v12.1?

P.S.

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:00:30 GMT

In 5 minutes considering, I think this is one of the things that ought to get changed and expanded upon- here is why:

REASONS TO HAVE LOCK-ABLE STORY LEVELS IN HLM's

1) Remodeling is often the BREAD and BUTTER of most architects.
2) As such, HLM's are a STRONG selling point of AC.
3) Clients PAY us and we in turn pay Archicad.
4) Client/Designer/Architect relationships are, by nature, ORGANIC usually and need to STAY FLEXIBLE in THE MOMENT. Clients need to see changes and COMPARE them in real time- on whim often, or to clarify what they're paying for that is OUR BREAD AND BUTTER (our being us architect/designers, and us being the ones who support and pay GS).

5) Since this is a critical function in AC and design work (we love HLMs!!!) and because most of the world IS NOT FLAT (hey, didn't Magellan and then Columbus prove that- maybe even Cortez?) it makes sense that SITES WILL HAVE DIFFERENT STORY SETTINGS ALL THE TIME- like ALL the time.

6) And since we architects and designers often do MORE than one building, or need to patch into existing buildings (see item #1) it would make sense to have story settings be something that can be excluded/remain unchanged-independent from changes in when linked as a HLM model to a pln that has different settings! (clue for the coders there)....

and last...
7) Because I think almost EVERYONE WHO USES AC will benefit from it, I say listen up AC and don't stop working on these multi-story HLM dev stuff-

IT ROCKS!!!

but these things need to be updated for more functional use ASAP! (At least half my work involves multi-story sites)...!!!!

(and pay attention to the SEO issues with HLM story settings, dev team- we use those SEO's all the time too!!!!)

p.s.
I wonder how much of a bonus the coders will get if they do this... too bad we don't have more say in it- like a piggy bank to put our lunch money into.... "...here it is- BONUS VACATION PAY... if you can get it done in a month!!!..."

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Djordje — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:16:51 GMT

JP-Design wrote:
---WAIT, ISN'T GRAPHISOFT BASED OUT OF HUNGARY, EAST/MID EUROPE???
(did I miss something or is Hungary like Denmark,- all flat?)

Actually, it mostly is ...

Another feature that Archicad never had, and that is European to the core, is the double window. You know, one set of panels on the outside of the half metre thick wall, another on the inside. I wonder why.

The only cure for the modules is to use the old storey by storey method, so you can drag the moduled stories up or down.

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Rob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:06:29 GMT

It sure would be a nice function to have this in the program, as the end result is ...

1) Sitting down with clients
2) Showing them the results of what we architects do: before and after with each addition and change (say, 30 different layer/layer states for various changes on a few different buildings on a multi-level site, since we're not all in Nebraska or Kansas, Dorothy).
3) They get to SEE what we architects do, and then CHOOSE.
4) WE get paid and then...
5) WE pay Graphisoft for their fine and awesome software and vow to continue being customers and buying updates *cough cough cough*.

But really in the end, it's convenience and client satisfaction. I think I can use something by ADOBE or MICROSOFT to do this, yeah? $800 out to them vs, Graphisoft.... Hmmmm..... How many people want this function in AC v12.1?

I agree and disagree...

I agree that a feature of Alternatives should be built-in however this task is more complex that you might think. In order to make it working properly AC needs to consider a lot of 'collateral' implications in a model, book, layouts etc... so my disagreement would be at the point that it can't be simply done as 'an extension' to the existing AC version. It requires a major rework of AC core as well as perhaps implementation of new technology capable to handle this efficiently enough. Just for an illustration is a project I am working on at the moment (and I am pretty sure that is nothing unusual) - I have a masterplan with 14 types of villas (lock stock 5000 villas on 4 hectares). Each villa has 8 alterations so I am virtually facing to 14x8xmasterplan alt's combinations. And that gets extremely difficult to manage, so this feature must be prepared for massive data handling in terms of a file size, issue and model tracking etc. I believe it is possible to do it but it needs to be done extremely good and that takes a time, resources and a good will. AFAIK GS has the last one that's for sure as they are pretty aware of this problem however I can't talk about first two as I do not own this company.

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

jameshart — Thu, 25 Jul 2013 18:47:13 GMT

JP-Design wrote:
How do we set up the story settings on a multi-building site plan using with hotlink *.pln's for each building?
The problem- all the different hotlinked modules/existing structures all have different story settings!
So when I add the modules, the stories are all messed up.

I'm having this problem today. I'd love to be informed if anyone finds a solution! (other then placing each story individually that is.) Thanks everyone!

There is another post on this same topic (they didn't find a solution yet either, but just for cross reference: http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=209108).

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Link — Thu, 25 Jul 2013 19:04:40 GMT

You could try using hot linked modules as I discuss in this post complete with screencasts.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 25 Jul 2013 20:50:25 GMT

See also this thread:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=40850

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:11:34 GMT

While this method works brilliantly compared to saving objects or trying your luck with unified story settings we always end up with missing elements - also what is strange is that even though the publishing set is saved with the "current story" setting for each story module, when placing ArchiCAD sometimes asks if it should place a single story module OR a multi-story object.

Bottom line is that this function of ArchiCAD would benefit in some love from Graphisoft, automated placing/assembly of multiply modules, locked stories in modules or just an entirely new and more flexible approach to stories...

Re: Story Settings? = Master plan multi-building hotlinks

Link — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:47:09 GMT

Bram wrote:
While this method works brilliantly compared to saving objects or trying your luck with unified story settings we always end up with missing elements - also what is strange is that even though the publishing set is saved with the "current story" setting for each story module, when placing ArchiCAD sometimes asks if it should place a single story module OR a multi-story object.

This usually occurs when you have multi-story elements, or elements that belong to different home stories and/or are positioned at a height outside the current story.

I do agree though, it could all be simpler. I'd like them to start with in-place HLM editing.

Cheers,
Link.