topic Layers VS categories in Project data & BIM

Layers VS categories

Ahmed_K — Tue, 30 May 2023 10:35:08 GMT

Hi all !
as archicad introduces categories and classification systems, is there a reason to stay with layers and layer combinations ?
showing and hiding Categories will be more BIM and more usefull, we set categories, and then we start working like always

Re: Layers VS categories

Jp1138 — Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:32:06 GMT

I think layers can be more flexible on what you want to show on your plans. With categories only you may be forced to make non construction logic categories just for the sake of representation. At least that´s how I see it right now, maybe I am wrong

Re: Layers VS categories

DGSketcher — Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:43:27 GMT

I have wondered about this myself, but there are two initial issues 1. Legacy AC projects with layers - There's no easy migration path. 2. Categories are not set up for 2D work - This means you need to develop a display category & control system for the 2D elements. If AC was a new software there's probably a lot that could be changed but the current 10 year legacy requirement limits what can be done with some aspects.

Re: Layers VS categories

Ahmed_K — Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:19:08 GMT

2D elements can't be classified, maybe this is the main reason for that, but, if we establish a link between classifications and 3D elements layers, so we keep both, and filter the model in one single step, i used to filter bu layer combinations and then with classifications to coordinate, so the work is done twice

Re: Layers VS categories

Barry Kelly — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:11:54 GMT

Layers are basically just a special classification for elements anyway.

If layers were included as an actual classification, then we would either …
- need multiple classifications (which we can do now) and then we would just be setting the extra classification to the layer (no different to what we do now?).
- or we would need to set a property in a classification that denotes the layer. That would mean we could have different layers in different classifications - could be a good thing or a very bad and confusing thing.

I am happy that the layers and layer combinations are controlled separately.

Barry.

Re: Layers VS categories

poco2013 — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:31:15 GMT

Barry wrote:

I am happy that the layers and layer combinations are controlled separately.

Barry.

I agree completely, but having the ability to control viability by classification does not negate the necessity for layers. We now control visibility by revision status, MVO and about five + other schemes. Having a classification visibility option would add even more convenience in drafting. Although I would extend classifications and properties to 2D elements also. Just another option to use or not use? Perhaps element viability could be added as a rule to the GOs using classifications and/or properties among the other options?

Re: Layers VS categories

Barry Kelly — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:42:41 GMT

poco2013 wrote:
Perhaps element viability could be added as a rule to the GOs using classifications and/or properties among the other options?

Yes I would love to be able to hide elements by GO, rather than just changing there appearance (making them white so they don't print for example).

Barry.

Re: Layers VS categories

LucaP — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 07:58:11 GMT

Barry wrote:
poco2013 wrote:
Perhaps element viability could be added as a rule to the GOs using classifications and/or properties among the other options?

Yes I would love to be able to hide elements by GO, rather than just changing there appearance (making them white so they don't print for example).

Barry.

That actually comes down to a wish that I wanted to add to a wishlist, but wanted to have some feedback first.

What do you guys think about creating Layer Combinations with criteria? Instead of trying to add new functionality to GO we could just change Layers which were created specifically for visibility settings.

Let's say you have a naming convention for your layers (E.g. We use prefixes for specific elements categories ' 1 | 1 | External Walls ') and then you could use a criteria to determine in which Layer Comb you would like to see which layers - By using "Begins with" in that case.

This would save some time and perhaps help to avoid some mistakes when creating new layers and then having to remember to update specific Layer Combinations.

What do you think? Is it worth creating a wish?

Re: Layers VS categories

Barry Kelly — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:31:58 GMT

LucaP wrote:
That actually comes down to a wish that I wanted to add to a wishlist, but wanted to have some feedback first.

What do you guys think about creating Layer Combinations with criteria? Instead of trying to add new functionality to GO we could just change Layers which were created specifically for visibility settings.

Let's say you have a naming convention for your layers (E.g. We use prefixes for specific elements categories ' 1 | 1 | External Walls ') and then you could use a criteria to determine in which Layer Comb you would like to see which layers - By using "Begins with" in that case.

This would save some time and perhaps help to avoid some mistakes when creating new layers and then having to remember to update specific Layer Combinations.

What do you think? Is it worth creating a wish?

I don't get it.
So you have 3 layers all with the same prefix and you want to hide those layers that "Begin With... 1|1|".
That is fine and all of those layers will hide.

Now what happens when you want another layer combination that shows just one of those layers but hides the other two?
How would you do this except for creating criteria that looks at the whole layer name?
Or they would all need different prefixes.
So why have the prefixes in the first place?

Maybe I just don't understand what you mean.

Layer combinations are so much easier and it is only one click per layer combination to show or hide a new layer.
In fact you can do it now in the Attribute Manager by selecting multiple layer combinations and turning a layer on of off in all of them at once.

Barry.

Re: Layers VS categories

LucaP — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:56:11 GMT

Now what happens when you want another layer combination that shows just one of those layers but hides the other two?
How would you do this except for creating criteria that looks at the whole layer name?

For exceptional situations you could of course use whole name criteria.

However, after giving it a second thought, you might be right - perhaps I'm overthinking this. Thanks for your input.

Yes I would love to be able to hide elements by GO, rather than just changing there appearance (making them white so they don't print for example).

Your idea seems to be better in that case, since you could apply layer criteria in GO for specific objects and then give them correct visibility state (I was trying to find a solution where you could still maintain visibility setting in the layers tool, but maybe it's not necessary since it still is going to be quite a code change for developers).

BTW. Do you know if there is a wish for it?

Re: Layers VS categories

Barry Kelly — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:29:58 GMT

LucaP wrote:
BTW. Do you know if there is a wish for it?

With regards to hiding elements with GO - 3 that I can see, but as with many wishes they seem to incorporate other wishes as well or started out as something else.
Just as this has gone a little of topic from the original post (probably my fault).

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=56266

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53427

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67598

Maybe make a new clear wish (with a poll) if you really want this.

Barry.

Re: Layers VS categories

Ahmed_K — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:19:39 GMT

And what to do if an element receives two or more classicitaions, meanwile it could be placed on a unique layer ?

Re: Layers VS categories

poco2013 — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:40:19 GMT

Presently, an element in Archicad can only be assigned only one classification (per classification group). but each classification can have multiple properties assigned to it. That why I like the GO rule based method for visibility as it allows the user to establish its own criteria or have multiple criterias for each plan.

I also agree that the layer based scheme is absolutely essential as currently used and must remain. But that there should be additional options and criteria based visibility sounds like a good one to me.

Re: Layers VS categories

DGSketcher — Mon, 20 Apr 2020 16:26:13 GMT

poco2013 wrote:
I also agree that the layer based scheme is absolutely essential as currently used and must remain. But that there should be additional options and criteria based visibility sounds like a good one to me.

+1 As BIM develops I can see that category display filtering could become an essential part of the modelling process, particularly where you have sub-elements that you need to identify or check. As an example you might have a layer for "Frames", the ability to only display the bracing & columns would be helpful if other content in the Frames layer made it too cluttered to edit. The same could be useful to ensure categories have been correctly applied. There is a tradeoff here between the number of layers to separate elements or controlling visibility through categories and each project will find its own balance. At one extreme you have one layer called model and everything is displayed by category, at the other you have the historic methodology of enough layers and no categories.

Re: Layers VS categories

Mikko Lahti — Tue, 06 Sep 2022 13:28:27 GMT

I made a product wish for this: Replace layers with classifications - Graphisoft Community
Please vote for it!