topic Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version" in Project data & BIM

Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Agnes Gaschitz — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 09:23:46 GMT

Dear All,

I'd like to ask you about your "Save as... > previous Archicad version" workflow.
Could you please share some examples in case you need this action?
What kind of difficulties do you face during the process? E.g.: Issues during save back and forth, lack of information, Library difficulties, Teamwork problems, etc.

Any input is well appreciated!

Regards,
Agi

Saving from AC24 to AC23 - Options

Saving from AC24 to AC23 - Warning

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 09:40:45 GMT

Hi Agnes,
I rarely do this operation. But I think it won't give you any bad surprise.
But if you are hesitant, save the file with another name > Do the operation > Check for anything unexpected.
Hope this helps.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Barry Kelly — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 09:44:23 GMT

New features will not translate backwards.
For example the segmented beams and columns in 23/24 do not exist in 22 and before.
So you will lose them when saving backwards.
Same for the new openings with the opening tool.

Likewise the stair and railings will disappear when you go back to 20 or before because those versions did not have those tools.

Even some objects will not translate backwards even if you tick the option to do so.
Some new objects can use Building Materials and this was not possible in older versions.

Basically always save back with a new name so you don't overwrite the original and lose work.
Then you can decide if the backward save worked or not.

Don't forget to load the old library as the older versions can't use the new library objects.
I am not sure if it automatically swaps the library for you.

Barry.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Podolsky — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 09:52:16 GMT

Nothing really complicated here. If you save your project to previous version this is what usually might happen:
1. You are loosing all custom library parts you created, because previous version ArchiCAD cannot read newest version of GDL (even if inside of the script all commands are old). Library part conversion (backward migration) works only with ArchiCAD standard library elements - so don't worry about doors, windows, furniture - everything you took from ArchiCAD Library. The only one feature can be disabled - it's if you use custom cabinet panels, custom sashes, custom railing elements and similar. I think they won't be converted.
2. All new tools, introduced in the newest version only will disappear. For example if you are using polygonal openings in AC 25 - it's a new feature if version 25, so these opening won't be included. Or if you use new photo fill feature in AC25 in elevations - in AC24 they are not going to look the same.

And this is pretty much that's it. It always depends on how versions differ. In some version it's better not to use this feature at all, as you might get serious mess with it. Like if you downgrade from version 17 to 16 - in new version was introduced new feature called building materials, that completely changed the whole structure of file.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Barry Kelly — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 10:20:21 GMT

Podolsky wrote:
1. You are loosing all custom library parts you created, because previous version ArchiCAD cannot read newest version of GDL (even if inside of the script all commands are old).

A small clarification here.
Unless the object is saved in the Embedded Library.
Then it will convert back to older versions unless it uses a new command that isn't in the older version.
I have done this quite often to save an object back for an older version.

Barry.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Erwin Edel — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 11:13:28 GMT

The most use I get out of this is to transfer specific schedules or cinerender scenes and such things to an older project where I do not wish to use a newer AC version.

For example, I have a project in AC20 that I wish to keep there, but I also don't feel like recreating an elaborate schedule from another project in AC23 (and I want to import it to the AC20 project). If I export the schedule settings to XML often I can't import that XML from AC23 in AC20. If I save back to 22, 21 and then 20, open that file in 20 and export to XML I can import.

It is a very niche use.

Maybe you will have upgraded from one version to the newest version, only to discover it has a bug that affects this project. You then have the option to save back to older version as well.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Podolsky — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 12:31:19 GMT

Barry wrote:

Podolsky wrote:
1. You are loosing all custom library parts you created, because previous version ArchiCAD cannot read newest version of GDL (even if inside of the script all commands are old).

A small clarification here.
Unless the object is saved in the Embedded Library.
Then it will convert back to older versions unless it uses a new command that isn't in the older version.
I have done this quite often to save an object back for an older version.

Barry.

Oh! This is great news! Thank you a lot for that hint.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Agnes Gaschitz — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 15:27:28 GMT

Dear All,

Thank you for all of this info, very useful for me!
However, I'm still wondering about other use cases when and why you need to save back your project... Don't hesitate to tell your story

Thank you and have a nice weekend,
Agi

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Podolsky — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 15:55:07 GMT

Downgrading to previous version can happen by two reasons - current version is too buggy and better to return to previous one - to have less troubles and calm life, or someone asking you to downgrade the file, as he didn't upgrade his ArchiCAD to the same version you are using.
Another reason might be - in previous version you have some important add-on, that wasn't updated for the new version. Let say you bought and installed additional render engine. It's working in version 24 but not yet in 25.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:34:04 GMT

Here is one use case I saw:
The architectural office receives a commission to continue work on a file another architectural office worked on before.
For example, the other office did the permit documents, but they do not have the capacity to do the construction documents.
Let's say they worked in AC24, but this office uses AC23.
So they need to convert those AC24 files from the other office to Ac23.

I just have an idea or suggestion. When saving to the previous version, it would be great to have a checkbox "Save would-be-deleted elements to Morphs". This way, any geometry or elements not present in the previous version would be converted to Morphs, which would convert back to the previous version.
Also, any library part existing only in the latest version would be converted to Morph.
This way no geometry would be lost. Of course, parameters would be lost, but the geometry at least would be there.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

DGSketcher — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:49:06 GMT

LaszloNagy wrote:
Here is one use case I saw:
I just have an idea or suggestion. When saving to the previous version, it would be great to have a checkbox "Save elements that would be deleted to Morphs". This way, any geometry or elements not present in the previous version would be converted to Morphs, which would convert back to the previous version.
Also, any library part existing only in the latest version would be converted to Morph.
This way no geometry would be lost. Of course, parameters would be lost, but the geometry at least would be there.

You would still potentially be faced with annotation losses, but a very good idea. I would reinforce it with a Graphic Override that highlights the changed elements the same way as missing textures or inverted elements are highlighted. At least then you might be able to find the changes rather than the fairly anonymous reporting we get in the Check & Repair process.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:40:23 GMT

Then you could convert all Dimension Points associated with converted elements to static so they would not be lost when saved to a previous version.
Also, probably Texts and Labels displaying info about converted elements should be made static so no info would be lost.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:29:55 GMT

DGSketcher wrote:

LaszloNagy wrote:
Here is one use case I saw:
I just have an idea or suggestion. When saving to the previous version, it would be great to have a checkbox "Save elements that would be deleted to Morphs". This way, any geometry or elements not present in the previous version would be converted to Morphs, which would convert back to the previous version.
Also, any library part existing only in the latest version would be converted to Morph.
This way no geometry would be lost. Of course, parameters would be lost, but the geometry at least would be there.
You would still potentially be faced with annotation losses, but a very good idea. I would reinforce it with a Graphic Override that highlights the changed elements the same way as missing textures or inverted elements are highlighted. At least then you might be able to find the changes rather than the fairly anonymous reporting we get in the Check & Repair process.

Great idea! Please make a wish topic, Laszlo 🙂

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Eduardo Rolon — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:41:58 GMT

Meanwhile as a workaround you can export as IFC the missing elements and linked them into the previous version.

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 08:53:02 GMT

Karl wrote:
Great idea! Please make a wish topic, Laszlo 🙂

Here is the wish:

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=73987

Re: Question about "Save as... > previous Archicad version"

Agnes Gaschitz — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 13:15:13 GMT

Thank you All, great and useful info!