topic lost 3d in Project data & BIM

lost 3d

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2023 11:13:46 GMT

When I opened my plan, I switched to the front view and the Roofs, Floors, and the trim were all missing. Also on every other elevation. I checked to see if the layers were showing they were but still didnt show up in any elevation. I went to the plan and selected each element and switched them to wireframe then they showed up on elevation. Then did again to solid, that worked. Now I cant see any of those items in 3D. What should I try next or rather what am I doing wrong?

Thank You for your help

Brian

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:14:45 GMT

Here is the 3D view

Re: lost 3d

Richard Morrison — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 05:14:41 GMT

Check your 3D window display settings. You may have the 3D window not set to display the roof level.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:46:09 GMT

The first thing to come to mind is that you might have duplicate roofs and floors which are canceling each other out. But as I recall this is a problem in section and causes different effects in 3D. Worth a look though.

It is also possible to specifically exclude elements types in 3D (in one of the 3D view settings, I think it's now called "Filter Elements in 3D"), but it defaults to showing everything but the zones and you would have to change it intentionally, so that seems an unlikely explanation.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:14:23 GMT

Matthew wrote:
The first thing to come to mind is that you might have duplicate roofs and floors which are canceling each other out. But as I recall this is a problem in section and causes different effects in 3D. Worth a look though.

It is also possible to specifically exclude elements types in 3D (in one of the 3D view settings, I think it's now called "Filter Elements in 3D"), but it defaults to showing everything but the zones and you would have to change it intentionally, so that seems an unlikely explanation.

I dont think that is it

The only way I can get it to show again is to go to the layer settins and change the layer to wireframe, and refresh the view then it shows in wireframe. Then I change it to solid and it works.

I also checked for duplicates

Any other sugestions?

Thanks

Brian

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:21:58 GMT

Richard wrote:
Check your 3D window display settings. You may have the 3D window not set to display the roof level.

It looks like Roofs and Slabs are set to display

Re: lost 3d

Laszlo Nagy — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:48:54 GMT

BAS wrote:
Matthew wrote:
The first thing to come to mind is that you might have duplicate roofs and floors which are canceling each other out. But as I recall this is a problem in section and causes different effects in 3D. Worth a look though.

It is also possible to specifically exclude elements types in 3D (in one of the 3D view settings, I think it's now called "Filter Elements in 3D"), but it defaults to showing everything but the zones and you would have to change it intentionally, so that seems an unlikely explanation.

I dont think that is it

The only way I can get it to show again is to go to the layer settins and change the layer to wireframe, and refresh the view then it shows in wireframe. Then I change it to solid and it works.

I also checked for duplicates

Any other sugestions?

Thanks

Brian

Maybe it is still duplicates if switching to wireframe and then to solid gets them to show.
The same set of elements may be on entirely different stories, but occupy the same space in 3D.
Try this: select one element and delete it. If it now show correctly, it means that there are two exact same elements occupying the same space, in which case Matthew is right.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:23:13 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
Maybe it is still duplicates if switching to wireframe and then to solid gets them to show.
The same set of elements may be on entirely different stories, but occupy the same space in 3D.
Try this: select one element and delete it. If it now show correctly, it means that there are two exact same elements occupying the same space, in which case Matthew is right.

No luck doing that. If there were two exact same elements occupying the same space, would just those two in the same space have trouble displaying, or would every Slab/Roof in the whole plan have trouble not just the duplicates?

Re: lost 3d

Link — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 06:42:11 GMT

At first I thought it may be a transparency issue, but that wouldn't affect the elevation. It still sounds like a layer problem to me, but it would help if you could upload a module of the problem roof.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:53:04 GMT

Link wrote:
At first I thought it may be a transparency issue, but that wouldn't affect the elevation. It still sounds like a layer problem to me, but it would help if you could upload a module of the problem roof.

Cheers,
Link.

Thanks for the help. Here is the file.

Re: lost 3d

Link — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:44:28 GMT

Works fine here. It's probably part of a bigger problem. You may have to upload a copy of the project. To squeeze it down you can use Attribute Manager to purge all unused attributes (All tab). You can also manually delete all layout info.

Still sounds like a layer problem to me - did you try this whilst navigating in the project map?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:28:09 GMT

Link wrote:
Works fine here. It's probably part of a bigger problem. You may have to upload a copy of the project. To squeeze it down you can use Attribute Manager to purge all unused attributes (All tab). You can also manually delete all layout info.

Still sounds like a layer problem to me - did you try this whilst navigating in the project map?

Cheers,
Link.

I purged all unused attributes and deleted all layouts then zipped it but it only got down to 579 KB too big to send. anything else I can do ?

Re: lost 3d

Link — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:45:12 GMT

After looking at the file sent via email:

Ultimately I believe your problem lies with Solid Element Operations. It seems you may have accidentally instructed AC to use some of the roofs to use themselves as operators and targets, which results in them effectively cancelling each other out. They still remain visible in plan, but any 3D window (and that includes S/E's) they disappear, as they should.

To rectify this problem, I would select all the roofs on the roof story, open the Solid Element Operations palette and on the Maintenance panel under 'Cancel Operations of Selected Elements', hit the 'All Other Selected Elements' button.

Hope that solves the problem for you. If problems persist, let us know if you have any library part problems.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:28:06 GMT

Link wrote:
It seems you may have accidentally instructed AC to use some of the roofs to use themselves as operators and targets,

Link.

I'm sure it wasn't an accident. More like that "get some training thing".

(1) So an element can only be a Taget or an Operator not both?

(2) I was wondering if it was the roofs cancelling each other out, why did it work in the roof module?

(3) And why did it cause the slabs to go away also?

Now I have another thing I know not to do or to look for if something isn't working.

Thans again

Brian

Re: lost 3d

Link — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:01:10 GMT

1. Elements can be targets as well as operators for different operations, but I think what you had done was somehow told the roof(s) to be targets and operators for the same operation. For example, if you use some roofs as targets and some of the same roofs as operators and did a subtraction operation, then those same roofs will cancel each other out.

2. Modules will lose SEO's between different stories, since all modules are single story only. Maybe you had some other SEO between other elements and your roofs too.

3. Again, you could have had an accidental SEO relationship between a slab and a roof. Without taking the time to go back and check the SEO Maintenance, it is anyone's guess what you've done!

I would suggest learning more about SEO and practice in a separate file. Follow the golden rule to make sure that you only ever use operators and targets that are absolutely necessary for that operation. A bad example would be to select all walls as targets and all roofs as operators for a subtraction with upwards extrusion. Sure it will work fine, but will also create many relationships between walls and roofs that will never be needed, especially if they are on the opposite sides of the building from each other. So keep them to an absolute minimum. Keep an eye on your Info box and your SEO palette as to how many elements you are using.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:10:01 GMT

Another golden rule:

Select your targets, click on "get target elements"
Deselect all (missing this step is probably why you got the results you did, BAS)
Select your operators, click on "get operator elements"
Choose your operation
Execute

Re: lost 3d

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:47:43 GMT

Thank you Everyone for your help

Brian

Re: lost 3d

R Muller — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:54:57 GMT

I do think there is a problem with solid element operations. I am working on a large site model, with a site mesh and lots of roads, paths, site stairs (made out of slabs), etc. The model is 5.5 mb. I am continually having to undo/ redo the solid element operations to get things to show up properly.

Sometimes the entire site mesh disappears from 3D view after I make some minor change to the model, such as modifying a slab that I have previously used to subtract from the mesh.

Sometimes some (but not all) of the roads that follow the mesh, which I have subtracted from the mesh to make them visible, stop being subtracted.

Sometimes the mesh covers slabs that I have previously made visible using "subtract with upwards extrusion". The slabs on the north end of the model may remain visible, while the slabs on the south end disappear under the mesh.

I have re-done the solid element operations so many times that I have created special layers so that I can do them over again quickly. I have one layer for slabs that need to slope with the mesh (about 25 elements of these), another layer for flat slabs such as stairs that will be subtracted from the mesh (about 120 elements).

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't work I change some of the slabs, removing curved edges and replacing with straight line segments, breaking up slabs with holes into multiple sections with out holes, etc. and finally it renders correctly again. But I am wasting a lot of time doing this.

I split the mesh into two meshes so that each would be smaller. No improvement.

I do have other "virgin" copies of the mesh in turned-off layers (i.e.no solid element ops). Can these hurt?

Any other ideas for improving this behavior?