topic Re: Annotation Layer Strategy in Project data & BIM

Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2023 10:58:15 GMT

I'm trying to come up with the most efficient method of managing annotation for differnet types of floor plans. For example... in a set of plans on one level I might have floor plans for... main level dimensions; main level room finish schedules; main level power & lighting; main level reflected ceiling plans; main level furniture plans, etc.

So with all of these drawings based on the main level... can I have just one level of annotation that will work on all layouts... or will I need an Annotation Layer established for each type of plan that I am noting up in order to not have content from the other plans appear on the wrong layout. This might seem pretty elementary... but I would appreciate any input that one might have conserning this question. - Thanks.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:38:17 GMT

scoreville wrote:
... or will I need an Annotation Layer established for each type of plan that I am noting up in order to not have content from the other plans appear on the wrong layout.

This is the way to go.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:46:43 GMT

Thanks for the reply... I was afraid this would be the way to do this in ArchiCAD. It seems that there could be a more efficient way to manage annotation... with say maybe 3 or 4 annotation layers for an entire project, rather than 15 - 20 separate annotation layers that would need to be managed in a template.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

vfrontiers — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:49:22 GMT

Agreed.... You will need a layer for each plan's notation.

Floor Plan (Notes)
Clg Plan (Notes)
etc, etc,

In addition, I have included a WORKSHEET (or Independent Detail in AC10) called NOTES.... As I use a KEY NOTE system, this NOTES window allows me a space to type out all the notes, properly formatted for my sheets. By use of the layers described above, I simply apply that plans LAYER COMBO to this window for a VIEW of each of the Key Notes to place in the layouts. So... only ONE "Notes" window, but many NOTES views for layouts.

Notes Window + Clg Plan Layer Combo = Key Notes for Clg Plan
Notes Window + Floor Plan Layer Combo = Key Notes for Floor Plan
etc., etc.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:56:00 GMT

Keep layering as simple as possible!!! Creating too many layers can be a huge management problem. The plan views need the most layer management, as the other views are isolated to the window they are in (i.e. sections, details, worksheets, etc...) Personally, I find it wasteful, even on large projects, to put dimensions, notes, fills, etc. on separate layers if they only show up in the same plan view. You can easily select info by tool or "find and select". Only create separate layers (dimensions,notes, etc.) for the most common plan views when needed. I typically place all 2D info on the ArchiCAD layer that is added to a section, elevation, detail, etc. because they are isolated to their own window anyway, the info is always on no matter which view you just came from, and in Teamwork you can use any layer for 2D embellishing of the isolated windows as long as you include that window in your workspace.

DON'T USE THE AIA NAMING METHOD!!! It is idiotic and based on the old AwfulCAD mentality. Name layers something that makes sense and not some abbreviated code. There are plenty of characters to work with to be descriptive enough for those who may open this file in the future.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Brad Elliott — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:03:26 GMT

Just to clarify a point. You need a layer for each different plan type but not for each story.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:06:22 GMT

[Notes Window + Clg Plan Layer Combo = Key Notes for Clg Plan
Notes Window + Floor Plan Layer Combo = Key Notes for Floor Plan]

I see. So would it be best to set up all of those notes on possibly an entire story dedicated to all of these keynotes and then create those view windows in the view map from this story and the necessary individual layer combinations?

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

vfrontiers — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:09:06 GMT

scoreville wrote:
[Notes Window + Clg Plan Layer Combo = Key Notes for Clg Plan
Notes Window + Floor Plan Layer Combo = Key Notes for Floor Plan]

I see. So would it be best to set up all of those notes on possibly an entire story dedicated to all of these keynotes and then create those view windows in the view map from this story and the necessary individual layer combinations?

NO!... just a detail window or WORKSHEET (new in AC11)...

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

vfrontiers — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:14:34 GMT

Eric wrote:
Keep layering as simple as possible!!! Creating too many layers can be a huge management problem. The plan views need the most layer management, as the other views are isolated to the window they are in (i.e. sections, details, worksheets, etc...) Personally, I find it wasteful, even on large projects, to put dimensions, notes, fills, etc. on separate layers if they only show up in the same plan view. You can easily select info by tool or "find and select". Only create separate layers (dimensions,notes, etc.) for the most common plan views when needed. I typically place all 2D info on the ArchiCAD layer that is added to a section, elevation, detail, etc. because they are isolated to their own window anyway, the info is always on no matter which view you just came from, and in Teamwork you can use any layer for 2D embellishing of the isolated windows as long as you include that window in your workspace.

With the LAYER COMBO feature... I personally don't see any problem with having a large number of layers... but that's a different debate...

Regarding the layer approach that puts NOTES, DIMS, FILLS and more onto one layer, I have trouble with... I prefer to keep the same layers throughout Schematic Design, DD, and working drawings... Therefore, it is necessary to isolate dims, notes, and fills to achieve all the different Schematic looks as well as produce working drawings.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:14:41 GMT

Keep layering as simple as possible!!! Creating too many layers can be a huge management problem.

I tend to agree and am frightened by the nightmare this could become by creating to many or unnecessary layers within a CAD template. So when it comes to elevations and sections and details you tend to leave all annotation on the ArchiCAD layer because...

1- those windows are complete independent from all drawing content; 2- the archiCAD layer is always on so you won't have to worry about turning on or off that layer for revision or publishing. = more efficient quality control.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:29:29 GMT

[Duane Wrote:]With the LAYER COMBO feature... I personally don't see any problem with having a large number of layers

I see your point Duane. It would be nice to have the option to create something once and present in schematic design, design and con docs without having to go back and evolve the original content for each phase of presentation. I tend to agree with you that in order to do that you will need separate layers for dims, notes, and fills - according to each layout.

Even though AC has the layer combination tool... I still tend to want to evolve a template with as few layers as possible. In theory it seems that that means less management and less room for error.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

TomWaltz — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:50:28 GMT

vfrontiers wrote:
[With the LAYER COMBO feature... I personally don't see any problem with having a large number of layers... but that's a different debate....

It's true that layer combinations are great for controlling what is on and what is off at any given time. The problem with long layer lists is when you know there is a layer that if off and needs to be turned on, you may not find it. Long layer lists also increase the chance of someone picking the first layer that makes sense instead of the one something actually belongs on (say layer #25 out of a list of 190 layers, when #178 was correct)

As long as you have enough layers that you can control what drawings elements appear on, you have enough. You are probably better to err on the side of too many and pare them down over time.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Laura Yanoviak — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:54:13 GMT

Eric wrote:
DON'T USE THE AIA NAMING METHOD!!! It is idiotic and based on the old AwfulCAD mentality. Name layers something that makes sense and not some abbreviated code. There are plenty of characters to work with to be descriptive enough for those who may open this file in the future.

We use the "Project Framework" layer logic with the AIA naming method quite successfully. The nice thing is it keeps the layers organized within a hierarchy.

scoreville wrote:
2- the archiCAD layer is always on so you won't have to worry about turning on or off that layer for revision or publishing. = more efficient quality control.

The only elements we place on the ArchiCAD layer are Drawings placed in the Layout Book. If you never need to turn your notes off, I suppose your practice is sufficient; however we like to control whether or not there are notes in the final output (rendered elevations, for instance... and in S/E windows, I like to be able to isolate the 2D from the 3D information).

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

SeaGeoff — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:29:11 GMT

Agreed, nothing in the ArchiCAD layer. But you can get away with a single annotation layer for all sections, elevations and details, assuming you aren't using any of those for more than one purpose. The test for layers is "do I ever need to hide this?"

A longtime wish of mine is that each view would open in it's own window. That would trim the annotation layers to a consistent short list that could be used across the entire project, and deliver other benefits as well.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Richard Morrison — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:30:26 GMT

Geoff wrote:
A longtime wish of mine is that each view would open in it's own window.

Are you talking about something different than this?

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

TomWaltz — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:36:59 GMT

I think Geoff means more like multiple floor plan windows, each with its own independent 2D elements, kind of like how elevations work. It's a live view and you can cut as many as you want without needing different text layers for each one.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:20:14 GMT

Tom Waltz Wrote:[quote]It's a live view and you can cut as many as you want without needing different text layers for each one.

That would sure make layer setup and management a whole lot easier. Hopefully that will become an option someday. It just seems like it would be more efficient and less confusing to manage.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

Aaron Bourgoin — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:13:46 GMT

Would it make any sense at all to do this with worksheets - each with a floor plan view set as the Trace reference? Haven't tried this really, but have been struggling with the issue of annotation versus modeling layers.

I have been working with the OmniClass standard for model layers, but as a specification standard it doesn't really have anything to offer for annotations on drawings.

I understand that IFC 2x3 supports the export of annotations inside the building model data set but haven't had a chance to see what it does or how it does it.

Re: Annotation Layer Strategy

SeaGeoff — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:43:31 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I think Geoff means more like multiple floor plan windows, each with its own independent 2D elements, kind of like how elevations work. It's a live view and you can cut as many as you want without needing different text layers for each one.

Correct Tom. Like section/elevation windows today but with a key distinction. The windows would be Views not simply Viewpoints. Two views generated by the same viewpoint (source view) could then be open side by side, say an architectural plan and a structural plan. It needs to be so to fully isolate the annotation.

Aaron, I have thought about the Trace on Worksheet idea too, especially now that the trace can be displayed with it's true colors. But it's an additional step in a workflow where views, being an abstract intermediary, are the hardest part of ArchiCAD for new users to grasp as it is (assuming they have been properly shielded from gobbledygook like the Floor Plan Cut Plane). You might as well simply annotate directly on the layouts.

Now if worksheets were live model views...