topic Re: Overlay with new zones on old? in Project data & BIM

Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Tue, 30 May 2023 11:02:50 GMT

Just now, my head seems full of gravel...

I'm trying to overlay zones, that is I have covered a plan with zones that I want to keep, but now I'm trying a different plan design, and I want a fresh and different zone set in the same pln. Seems like hiding the first zone layer and creating the new set on a new layer doesn't cut it - the old zones are still active and Archicad protests and won't comply. ("A zone was detected outside the current" something - that's pure BS because I'm clicking in an area within an old zone- but this topic wasn't about f-d up error messages, so shut my mouth)

I can measure areas with the fill tool, but that¨s rather limited. Is there a way to non-permanently disable zones without deleting them?

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

James Murray — Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:49:53 GMT

Thomas,

I just tried it, two sets of zones on different layers, based on two sets of walls, and I had no trouble. I got the areas in Interactive Schedule by changing the Layer criteria. Not really helpful...

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:03:12 GMT

I'm not sure, but I'm using partly the same set of walls. (I'm dividing a floor space into partitions) Typically, just one or two dividing walls change between sets. These are of course placed on diffferent layers. The client is advertising all sets, and when he finds a potential tenant for one or the other combination, I need to be able to recall it to finalize construction. So I need to have all options up-to-date all the time.

I don't know exactly how Archicad stores its zone data, but your answer gave me the idea that it may be permanently tied to the currently used zone boundary walls in some way that blocks additional zones. That would mean that you can't re-use an already used boundary wall for a second zone (at least not on the same side of the boundary) and that would explain why it doesn't work for me. (maybe it's just my too predictable brain that tries to find some logic).

If there was a way to sort of completely turn off some layers, that would be a solution. Now, some hidden layers are still active, like SEO operatiors, and certainly, these zones. Maybe we should have an OFF switch in addition to the HIDDEN?

Or an I completely off track here? I'm not yet too comfortable with zones, after all.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Rakela Raul — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:53:21 GMT

thomas, nothing to do with your problem, but sounds like you also need
a zone where you can just type the sf required by the new tenant and the zone stretch by itself to a direccion set also by you...also good for lot subdivisions.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

James Murray — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:04:57 GMT

Thomas wrote:
your answer gave me the idea that it may be permanently tied to the currently used zone boundary walls in some way that blocks additional zones. That would mean that you can't re-use an already used boundary wall for a second zone (at least not on the same side of the boundary) and that would explain why it doesn't work for me. (maybe it's just my too predictable brain that tries to find some logic).

Ah, well actually I did reuse the exterior walls, just moved the interior. Sounds like what you did.

Weird.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:04:04 GMT

Rakela wrote:
thomas, nothing to do with your problem, but sounds like you also need
a zone where you can just type the sf required by the new tenant and the zone stretch by itself to a direccion set also by you...also good for lot subdivisions.

Well, no computer could ever guess how I want my subdivisions...

But some 15 years ago, I had a Norwegian CAD package called Jonathan. (Slow as mud, no wonder it never took off, we used it on the original MacII...) It had one feature I've actually never seen since then. You could draw a shape (a fill), have it display the area, and then move a corner or a boundary while the area figure updated itself continously in real-time on screen! Extremely efficient for ... damn! I don't know what it's called in English! Well, early area lay-outs, we call it program sketches literally translated.
Nothing to do with this problem, your idea just made me digress.

Back to the issue in question: I think it's unfair that James Murray's Archicad lets him place new zones within old, while mine doesn't. I think we Graphisoft customers deserve equal treatment! All ye customers unite! We have a struggle before us! Equality!

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:53:32 GMT

Thomas wrote:
But some 15 years ago, I had a Norwegian CAD package called Jonathan. (Slow as mud, no wonder it never took off, we used it on the original MacII...) It had one feature I've actually never seen since then. You could draw a shape (a fill), have it display the area, and then move a corner or a boundary while the area figure updated itself continously in real-time on screen!

Auto updating area calcs are possible within the zone stamp GDL by using the ROOM_AREA parameter instead of the usual ROOM_CALC_AREA parameter which require the "Update Zones" command. The update isn't live as you stretch but it is instantly updated.

It is possible to make a library part that does the balloon squeeze/ equal area trick. This would be fairly simple for rectangular shapes, a little more complex for general quadrilaterals, and very difficult to impracticable for general polygons.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:18:30 GMT

Matthew,

thanks for your tip. I'm not very familiar with the calculation tools and zone parameters, sothis is an area where I haev work ahead of me.

But back to the subject. What do you think about the equality issue? Why does my Archicad refuse to place a zone within an existing one, while James' doesn't? What am i doing wrong?

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Djordje — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:17:57 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Matthew,

thanks for your tip. I'm not very familiar with the calculation tools and zone parameters, sothis is an area where I haev work ahead of me.

But back to the subject. What do you think about the equality issue? Why does my Archicad refuse to place a zone within an existing one, while James' doesn't? What am i doing wrong?

It should warn you that you are placing a zone within an existing one, and ask you whether you want to do so.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 04:14:47 GMT

Djordje wrote:

It should warn you that you are placing a zone within an existing one, and ask you whether you want to do so.

Hmm. I have never received that message and every project has overlapping zones. I just tried it again and did not get any warning message.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 04:23:30 GMT

Thomas,

I had a similar or same problem with zones with overlapping zones. Even when some are on a separate and hidden layer(s) they would show up in schedules.

Graphisoft Hungary confirmed it was a bug and that it wouldn't be fixed until AC10.

In the meantime I have to move the zones I didn't want to show away from the building while generating a schedule. Pain-in-the-you-know-what but at least there is a workaround.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:06:12 GMT

Djordje wrote:
It should warn you that you are placing a zone within an existing one, and ask you whether you want to do so.

And when I say "I do" Archicad still doesn't do it. It has something against me!

Erika, I thik there's some kindo f a bug. The behaviour doesn't seem consistent. But as I said, my problem is that I can't place the overlapping zones I want, not that they show in the calculation scedule.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:56:15 GMT

why don't you use the thick marquee tool and marquee the whole project. then drag a copy of the whold project to the side so that the zones are not overlapping

I know it is a little more trouble but it saves pains in the butts later. i have had the same problem i found no other way around it

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Djordje — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 03:05:48 GMT

Thomas wrote:
And when I say "I do" Archicad still doesn't do it. It has something against me!

Shame! To leave you high an dry!!!

What is the geometry mode of your zones? Autodetect or manual?

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:27:24 GMT

The mode is aotodetect, obviously. I have no trouble if I enter the zone boundaries from scratch every time I place one. But then, I save no time, either.

What worries me is this issue seems inconsistent. Some users have no trouble, others do.

What I would like is an option to disable detection of present zones (or to turn them off) while I place new ones. I want AC to just detect the walls or lines designated as zone boundaries and located around the spot I click with the zone tool, regardless of if I have put zones there before.

What seemingly happens now is when I click, AC looks for the nearest area where no zone is found, and places a zone there. That might be anywhere on the plan! I have no control and that bothers me. And it doesn't help to hide the previous zone layers.

I'm of course not sure if it really is a bug, but this behaviour is consistent in this office, at least.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

kevin b — Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:46:21 GMT

Not that this helps but I am experiencing similar problems, somethimes I get the overlapping zones message, sometiumes I get thea zone outside the clicked area has been detected message, and sometimes I get nothing as in I click and click and click and absolutly nothing happens, no message, no error, no zone, nothing. All of this with the autodetect (either one) mode.

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Thomas Holm — Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:46:16 GMT

Help or no help, it's always reassuring that you're not alone. Less chance that next stop is the lunatic asylum. Now Djordje 'n all, what am I doing wrong? Or is it a bug?

Re: Overlay with new zones on old?

Djordje — Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:40:11 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Now Djordje 'n all, what am I doing wrong? Or is it a bug?

Hmmmm ...

Aside from sending me the file, I really can't check.

Are you guys sure that all your walls connect?