topic Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution in Project data & BIM

Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 01:57:31 GMT

Something that absolutely every Archicad user needs to really grasp is the notion of Attributes (Pens, Line Types, Surfaces, etc) and the many ways that your project can become corrupted and fail to display as intended.

Due to a post in another forum, I just became aware of an absolutely outstanding short video tutorial created by Scott Moore of Fulton Trotter Architects in Australia. It is rare for me to come across a video that is as perfectly done as this one to visually illustrate, with clear well-paced audio and examples, all of the many Attribute issues that have been discussed over the past 25 years in countless threads by dozens of users... but which, until this video, have never been collated into a single presentation. All current knowledge is perfectly summarized in Scott's video ... along with several issues that I've not seen raised before.

https://www.digital.skewed.com.au/media/webinars/archintensive-2023-dark-side-attribute-chaos

The end of the tutorial will make sense to Python/data nerds and is not essential for most users to understand...other than that it is possible to programmatically manipulate attribute XML files.

I hope that every BIM Manager will watch the video... and really, that every user will also. (And, I really hope that every Product Manager at Graphisoft HQ watches if they haven't already... so that the archaic attribute management that has not changed in 30-ish years will get revamped sooner than later.)

Congratulations @scottjm for an absolutely superbly done presentation!

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

Nathan Hildebrandt — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 02:11:36 GMT

Karl,

It was the challenges of Index numbers that drove us to create the seemingly excessive number of preset attributes in the template that I built at FTA a decade ago. This presentation demonstrates the why behind my perceived craziness in doing so. Scott articulates ever so well in this presentation the challenges we all face using the software, all the while a lot of users still probably don't even realise it is happening.

Regards Nathan

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

Barry Kelly — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:22:58 GMT

Awesome video and really well explained and demonstrated.

I recommend anyone dealing with attribute management to watch this.

Thanks Scot and Nathan.

Barry.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

scottjm — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 05:43:06 GMT

Wow! Thanks so much for the feedback Karl. 😍

It's something we've always struggled with and it always shocked me how many people didn't fully understand how bad the problem is.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

mthd — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:59:20 GMT

Very well presented ! You would make an excellent training series on how to use AC correctly.

The dark side is the coding and fighting AC coding with Python coding.

Does VW or other cad do an attribute's system connected to all elements on their own specific layers better than AC ?

The first step for GS is to isolate all elements on their own specific layers and not have walls hosting windows and doors or openings. Then take it from there.

Way too complicated for simple minded people like me.

You shouldn’t need to be a code writer to be an Architect or an Architectural Technologist.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

DGSketcher — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:30:13 GMT

Excellent presentation @scottjm . Thank you.

It's a shame GS XML files can't be opened, edited and returned directly from Excel without needing Python. On the other hand perhaps that just indicates that the Attribute Manager is lacking in terms of bulk edits e.g. reindexing sorting & renaming.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

karsten_bauschert — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:58:51 GMT

I enjoyed the stream as well, showing us that we are not alone in the struggle to synchronize hotlinked projects.
The approache and presentation is very professional (hopefully we never need more IT than architectural skills in our office to get things done).

I see two approaches for Graphisoft to tackle the underlying problem:
1. A centralized data management -> its on the roadmap "in progress" ..

2. Eliminating the need for hotlinked Projects:
- Sufficent performance for ArchiCAD to handle multi-building non orthogonal projects with complex IFC hotlinks in realtime. -> "under research" ...
- Split-level abilities - > "idea pool" ...

I wonder which ArchiCAD version will bring relief in this area, AC 29.5 maybe? 😉

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

Martin Jules — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:38:03 GMT

@scottjm Maybe you used to work on AutoCAD too. If so, is there a simple way to convert the .ctb extension files from AutoCAD into the .xml ones for ArchiCAD?

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

_c_ — Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:45:10 GMT

I also saw that video after dealing with an attribute nightmare beyond believe in a full BIM project with 10 files. As a novice Archicad user, it was immensely useful to understand what I was making wrong.

Even finding the issues is insanely time consuming, and there python can help, so I developed an app.

The bad news is that, even if you manage to find all name/index issues, you still can have a large amount of deep issues, such as skin thickness and so on.

Here: no name/index mismatch on 130MB xml files, but loads of content mismatch

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

scottjm — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 03:46:15 GMT

@_c_ 😳😳🤩🤩. That app looks amazing! Definitely interested to know more about that if you were able to share anything.

yeah on some projects it’s neigh impossible to rationalise all the attribute pollution and you really just had to start again from scratch.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

_c_ — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 04:30:14 GMT

Sure, I am very glad to share with you!

Really, the minimum, since I did the app after being inspired by your video, which helped me totally.

The app runs on Mac, must still do a Win version. Let me know privately your mail address....

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 14:30:14 GMT

Just waking this topic up so that more people will watch Scott's video - especially after what I consider a somewhat confused presentation today on the Building Together event on attribute management where the speaker talked about doing it to keep things "tidy". (Benedek does seem like a great guy ... but I think he was perhaps juggling trying to explain the real issues and not being negative about Archicad or too critical of Graphisoft. Scott has no such 'political' restrictions on his presentation in the linked video.)

Attribute management and corruption is not about being "tidy"... it is about getting project views and documents that are either right or wrong... and at worse create a liability for your firm because what is delivered is not what was intended due to attributes from different files displaying in totally different ways.

I'm quite surprised that Graphisoft broadcast the presentation on Building Together as it reveals to potential customers the biggest flaw in using Archicad for large projects... with no real solution. Hopefully, a true centralized attribute management system will arrive with AC 28, as it really cannot be delayed any longer.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

Nathan Hildebrandt — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 14:32:40 GMT

I was hoping for a new solution in the presentation, sadly I was left wanting.

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

GabrielGG — Fri, 19 Sep 2025 09:13:05 GMT

There is a very good tool to edit XML in a Visual way without Programming skills.

IT's very Simple and Cheap if you wand to buy a license, it's call XiMpLe.

Its a Visual XML editor in Table form. It allows you to Copy-Paste from excel to the tables and you also can multiply existing attributes and edit the contents to create new ones (for example you create a list in excel and copy it to the xml.

I've used it intensively as I've been working in a new Attribute concept.

It also allows you to compare two XML files, and you get the differences marked with colors (good for checking two XML files from two projects.

maybe will also be usefull for @scottjm

here the link

XiMpLe - XML Editor - Homepage

You need to install Chocolatey in PowerShell first and then install the program within PowerShell. The installation instructions are not very clear. Note that this is for Windows only; Mac users cannot install it.
Chocolatey Software | Chocolatey - The package manager for Windows

Re: Video tutorial: Understanding Attributes and Attribute Pollution

GabrielGG — Fri, 19 Sep 2025 09:24:02 GMT

double published, please Moderators ... delete