topic Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening in GDL

Extend a Zone into Door opening

Aussie John — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 20:43:21 GMT

Somewhere between my version jump from v12 to v22 zones stopped extending into a door opening. Any suggestion to fix this or is a GDL object code line needed?

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Barry Kelly — Tue, 08 Sep 2020 05:08:46 GMT

Have a look in Project Preferences > Zones settings.
That might be what you are after.

Barry.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Aussie John — Wed, 09 Sep 2020 01:41:00 GMT

I have played with those preferences and it lets the zone extend to the line of the frame but still leaves an albeit thinner white space.
Interestingly when opening an old file the zone fills the door space but after updating the zone it pulls back to the wall line.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 09 Sep 2020 19:09:19 GMT

Is the Frame Thickness set to be equal to the Wall Thickness?

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Aussie John — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:53:57 GMT

Hi Laszlo
The frame is set smaller than the wall thickness. The threshold at the bottom of the frame remains white. Is there a setting in the door that might hide the zone?

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:45:42 GMT

Could you post some screenshots?
1. Floor Plan detail of Door (Zone color should be visible so we see Zone Polygon extents).
2. Section through Door and other structures.
3. Zone settings in Project Preferences.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Aussie John — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:54:17 GMT

Hi Laszio

Thanks
Info as requested
(for some reason I am not being notified of replies)

cheers John

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Barry Kelly — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 02:38:36 GMT

Aussie wrote:
(for some reason I am not being notified of replies)

Check your profile settings for replies.
See here...

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=68961&start=10#p306505

As for the zones they will only go up to the side of the frame (each side of the door).
At least that is how it seems from my observations.
So on the door side, the zone will go up to the door side - all good.
But on the other side the zone will only go up to the frame.

I guess you could argue that that is a bug?
Maybe it should go to the other side of the frame (where the other zone stops), or technically is should go up to the inside of the door panel thickness.
But I think that may be getting a bit technical and I think most would think the zone stopping at the frame is OK.

Interestingly if the frame extends beyond the wall thickness, it is ignored and the zone continues to where the edge of the wall would be if the frame was not there at all.

Barry.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Aussie John — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:20:53 GMT

Hi Barry I have to disagree. The line should go to where you expect a floor finish to stop ie under the door. As it looks ridiculous with a white stripe I have to call bug, especially as ver 12 worked perfectly and as expected.
As I have said previously my Archicad experience stopped for a while at 12.
Thanks for the reply advice.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Barry Kelly — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 01:47:01 GMT

It must be controlled by the door object somehow.
There must be something in the object scripting that affects it.

I don't use the GS default library.
I have my own objects - not as sophisticated but they do what I want.
No matter what settings I have the zone will not go into the recess for my doors.
Whereas it will for a GS door in the same wall.

So there is obviously something in the object script that allows for the door recesses that I don't have in my door scripts.
It can't simply be the reveal depth and my doors use that too.

I would think that if the GS scripts can recognise these recess depths and it knows the frame thickness, it must be able to allow for the zone to extend into the frame.
Don't ask me what controls it but my guess is there is a parameter in the GS door that stores the recess to frame depth (not the standard reveal depth as even my door uses that) that the zone reads.
There are many hundreds of parameters - many of which are hidden to the user.
Finding the right one might allow it to be manipulated.

Not that this is any help at all - just my observation.

Barry.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Aussie John — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 03:14:57 GMT

Interesting Barry
I too have used custom doors (see screen shot) and they follow frame depth but not the reveal depth. The GS doorframe (red) reacts to the zone with frame depth AND the setback.

Something very odd and again I call a bug.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Yves — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:56:05 GMT

Hello,
These parameters are well adjusted ?

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:14:20 GMT

The parameters Yves is referring to can be accessed by opening the Door element for editing in the GDL Editor.
Then on the "Details" page click the "Compatibility Options" button, and you will find the "Nominal Frame Thickness" and "Parapet Wall Inset" parameters at the top.

I tested this a little bit and found that it is possible to modify the two fields, then save the Door, and update Zones, the Zone polygon will indeed extend into the Door and the Zone polygons on the two sides of the Door will join (be adjacent).

In the default "Door 24" Door element, the two fields look like this:
"Nominal Frame Thickness":

gs_fthk

"Parapet Wall Inset":

(pwi=0)*(-1) + (pwi=1)*0 + (pwi=2)*WIDO_SILL + (pwi=3)*(WALL_THICKNESS - gs_fthk - WIDO_SILL)

As you can see, the gs_fthk parameter, which stores the frame thickness value of the Door, appears in both formulas.

So we need to modify the two fields to remove this parameter, as follows:

"Nominal Frame Thickness":

"Parapet Wall Inset":

(pwi=0)*(-1) + (pwi=1)*0 + (pwi=2)*WIDO_SILL + (pwi=3)*(WALL_THICKNESS - WIDO_SILL)

With these modifications, the Zone polygons join properly. The Door on the left is the Door I modified, the Door on the right is the default GS Door.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Barry Kelly — Fri, 18 Sep 2020 01:12:18 GMT

Just be careful with the nominal frame thickness.
It is a long time since I have played with it but I believe it affects the position of the door when you 'Flip' it.
Having it set to the frame thickness, the door frame will stay in position when you flip it, Set it to 0 and you may find the door frame flips about the reveal offset position (i.e. the front side of the frame).

Just tested it with a saved an modified copy of my door and this is what happens.

I have never dealt with the parapet wall offset so I am not sure what that will affect.

Barry.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Yves — Fri, 18 Sep 2020 13:56:28 GMT

Barry wrote:
Just be careful with the nominal frame thickness.

Effectively

WIDO_FRAME_THICKNESS frame thickness of window/door
when flipping doors/windows, they will be mirrored then relocated automatically by this value

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 22:36:37 GMT

Does this happen with you custom Doors?
Because I checked AC24 and it does not happen either with the default Doors or the Doors with the modifications detailed above.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Barry Kelly — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 01:23:10 GMT

LaszloNagy wrote:
Does this happen with you custom Doors?

Yes that image was my custom door.
But I also just tried with the standards GS 'door 23'.
Saved it as a new object with the nominated frame thickness set as 'gs_frame_thk'.
Then saved as again with the nominated frame thickness set to zero.
The frame is in a different position and now jumps when the door is flipped.

Barry.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 01:29:50 GMT

Barry,

You have to change the definition of both the "Nominal Frame Thickness" and the "Parapet Wall Inset" parameters. If you set only the first, the above issue will occur.
I know because I did the same.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Barry Kelly — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 01:54:51 GMT

Strange I am still getting the same result.

The original parapet wall inset formula is ... (pwi=0)*(-1) + (pwi=1)*0 + (pwi=2)*WIDO_SILL + (pwi=3)*(WALL_THICKNESS - gs_frame_thk - WIDO_SILL)

Whether I change it to ...(pwi=0)*(-1) + (pwi=1)*0 + (pwi=2)*WIDO_SILL + (pwi=3)*(WALL_THICKNESS - 0 - WIDO_SILL)
or just ... 0
seems to make no difference for me.

I am not sure why this formula is there as that 'pwi' parameter has a value of '2' and is hidden from the user - so can't be changed diirectly by the user.
So unless it is set somewhere in the parameter or master scripts, the formula could just be written as 'WIDO_SILL' (as that is the only part of the statement that is true with the default pwi value).
I am sure it is set somewhere in the parameter or master scripts based on other values, but trying to track it down in a GS object is a bit of a challenge.

When I get some time I might try to look into it.

Barry.

Re: Extend a Zone into Door opening

Peter Baksa — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 07:34:01 GMT

Hi,

http://gdl.graphisoft.com/gdl-basics/simple-doors-and-windows says that flipping moves the object by the nominal frame thickness, but it can be modeled/drawn differently based on WIDO_REVEAL_SIDE.

http://gdl.graphisoft.com/tips-and-tricks/linking-openings-to-zone might help John's reveal problem.