topic Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong? in GDL

Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

rudl — Thu, 26 Sep 2024 11:31:01 GMT

Hello,

As I'm experimenting around with gdl primitive elements I have some questions.
As far as I know all edges need to be used once 1x in positive direction 1x in negative direction also all faces should be counterclockwise. Considering the following mesh I have no Idea why it is turned inside out? All Faces in the following example should have the counter clockwise direction.

This is a very simple example of some much bigger parametric primitiv I'm working on

!EDGESTYLE es= 0! VERT 0,0,1 VERT 0,1,1 VERT 0,2,1 VERT 1,0,1 VERT 1,1,1 VERT 1,2,1 VERT 2,0,1 VERT 2,1,1 VERT 2,2,1 VERT 0,0,0 VERT 0,1,0 VERT 0,2,0 VERT 1,0,0 VERT 1,1,0 VERT 1,2,0 VERT 2,0,0 VERT 2,1,0 VERT 2,2,0 !1 SEC 1 EDGES -> SUBCOUNTB EDGE 1,2,-1,-1,es EDGE 2,3,-1,-1,es EDGE 4,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,6,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,8,-1,-1,es EDGE 8,9,-1,-1,es !7 SEC 2 EDGES -> DIAGONALS EDGE 2,4,-1,-1,es !1,5 EDGE 3,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,7,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,8,-1,-1,es !11 SEC 3 EDGES -> SUBCOUNT EDGE 4,1,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,2,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,3,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,4,-1,-1,es EDGE 8,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 9,6,-1,-1,es !17 SEC 4 EDGES -> SUBCOUNTB2 EDGE 10,11,-1,-1,es EDGE 11,12,-1,-1,es EDGE 13,14,-1,-1,es EDGE 14,15,-1,-1,es EDGE 16,17,-1,-1,es EDGE 17,18,-1,-1,es !23 SEC 5 EDGES -> DIAGONALS2 EDGE 2+9,4+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 3+9,5+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 5+9,7+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 6+9,8+9,-1,-1,es !27 SEC 6 EDGES -> SUBCOUNT2 EDGE 4+9,1+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 5+9,2+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 6+9,3+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 7+9,4+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 8+9,5+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 9+9,6+9,-1,-1,es !33 SEC 7 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER EDGE 1,10,-1,-1,es EDGE 4,13,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,16,-1,-1,es !36 SEC 8 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER EDGE 3,12,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,15,-1,-1,es EDGE 9,18,-1,-1,es !39 SEC 9 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER EDGE 2,11,-1,-1,es !40 SEC 10 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER EDGE 8,17,-1,-1,es !41 SEC 11 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER DIAGONAL EDGE 10,4,-1,-1,es EDGE 13,7,-1,-1,es !43 SEC 12 EDGES SUBCOUNT OUTER DIAGONAL EDGE 12,6,-1,-1,es EDGE 15,9,-1,-1,es !45 SEC 13 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER DIAGONAL EDGE 11,1,-1,-1,es EDGE 12,2,-1,-1,es !47 SEC 14 EDGES SUBCOUNTB OUTER DIAGONAL EDGE 17,7,-1,-1,es EDGE 18,8,-1,-1,es VECT 0,0,1 !PGONS TOP PGON 3,0,-1,1,7,11 PGON 3,0,-1,-3,-7,-12 !PGON 3,0,-1,11,7,-3 ! !PGON 3,0,-1,1,-12,-7 ! PGON 3,0,-1,2,8,12 PGON 3,0,-1,-4,-8,-13 PGON 3,0,-1,3,9,14 PGON 3,0,-1,-5,-9,-15 PGON 3,0,-1,4,10,15 PGON 3,0,-1,-6,-10,-16 !PGONS 2 BOTTOM PGON 3,0,-1,-17,-27,-23 PGON 3,0,-1,19,28,23 PGON 3,0,-1,-18,-28,-24 PGON 3,0,-1,20,29,24 PGON 3,0,-1,-19,-30,-25 PGON 3,0,-1,21,31,25 PGON 3,0,-1,-20,-31,-26 PGON 3,0,-1,22,32,26 !PGONS 3 INNER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,27,41,34 PGON 3,0,-1,30,42,35 PGON 3,0,-1,-11,-41,-33 PGON 3,0,-1,-14,-42,-34 !PGONS 4 OUTER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,-29,-37,-43 PGON 3,0,-1,-32,-38,-44 PGON 3,0,-1,13,36,43 PGON 3,0,-1,16,37,44 !PGONS 5 INNER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,-1,-45,-39 PGON 3,0,-1,-2,-46,-36 PGON 3,0,-1,39,18,46 PGON 3,0,-1,33,17,45 !PGONS 6 OUTER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,5,40,47 PGON 3,0,-1,6,38,48 PGON 3,0,-1,-21,-35,-47 PGON 3,0,-1,-22,-40,-48 BODY -1

Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

rudl — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 09:18:54 GMT

Info This is just a "dumb" version of the following:
Ramp like shapes that can create any ramp you want defined by two lines that are arbitary in space.
It was quite a challenge so far. Now it just needs to be solid.

Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

Pertti Paasky — Sat, 30 Dec 2023 10:05:21 GMT

Surprisingly I changed the direction of the first polygon and the result was good. I can´t say why.

PGON 3,0,-1,-1,-11,-7
!PGON 3,0,-1,1,7,11

I think You have some algorithm that produces the result?

These are not easy to imagine. I usually make a 2d graphic of verts, edges and polygons.

__________________

!EDGESTYLE es= 0! VERT 0,0,1 VERT 0,1,1 VERT 0,2,1 VERT 1,0,1 VERT 1,1,1 VERT 1,2,1 VERT 2,0,1 VERT 2,1,1 VERT 2,2,1 VERT 0,0,0 VERT 0,1,0 VERT 0,2,0 VERT 1,0,0 VERT 1,1,0 VERT 1,2,0 VERT 2,0,0 VERT 2,1,0 VERT 2,2,0 !1 SEC 1 EDGES -> SUBCOUNTB EDGE 1,2,-1,-1,es EDGE 2,3,-1,-1,es EDGE 4,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,6,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,8,-1,-1,es EDGE 8,9,-1,-1,es !7 SEC 2 EDGES -> DIAGONALS EDGE 2,4,-1,-1,es !1,5 EDGE 3,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,7,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,8,-1,-1,es !11 SEC 3 EDGES -> SUBCOUNT EDGE 4,1,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,2,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,3,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,4,-1,-1,es EDGE 8,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 9,6,-1,-1,es !17 SEC 4 EDGES -> SUBCOUNTB2 EDGE 10,11,-1,-1,es EDGE 11,12,-1,-1,es EDGE 13,14,-1,-1,es EDGE 14,15,-1,-1,es EDGE 16,17,-1,-1,es EDGE 17,18,-1,-1,es !23 SEC 5 EDGES -> DIAGONALS2 EDGE 2+9,4+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 3+9,5+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 5+9,7+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 6+9,8+9,-1,-1,es !27 SEC 6 EDGES -> SUBCOUNT2 EDGE 4+9,1+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 5+9,2+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 6+9,3+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 7+9,4+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 8+9,5+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 9+9,6+9,-1,-1,es !33 SEC 7 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER EDGE 1,10,-1,-1,es EDGE 4,13,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,16,-1,-1,es !36 SEC 8 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER EDGE 3,12,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,15,-1,-1,es EDGE 9,18,-1,-1,es !39 SEC 9 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER EDGE 2,11,-1,-1,es !40 SEC 10 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER EDGE 8,17,-1,-1,es !41 SEC 11 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER DIAGONAL EDGE 10,4,-1,-1,es EDGE 13,7,-1,-1,es !43 SEC 12 EDGES SUBCOUNT OUTER DIAGONAL EDGE 12,6,-1,-1,es EDGE 15,9,-1,-1,es !45 SEC 13 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER DIAGONAL EDGE 11,1,-1,-1,es EDGE 12,2,-1,-1,es !47 SEC 14 EDGES SUBCOUNTB OUTER DIAGONAL EDGE 17,7,-1,-1,es EDGE 18,8,-1,-1,es VECT 0,0,1 !PGONS TOP PGON 3,0,-1,-1,-11,-7 !PGON 3,0,-1,1,7,11 PGON 3,0,-1,-3,-7,-12 PGON 3,0,-1,2,8,12 PGON 3,0,-1,-4,-8,-13 PGON 3,0,-1,3,9,14 PGON 3,0,-1,-5,-9,-15 PGON 3,0,-1,4,10,15 PGON 3,0,-1,-6,-10,-16 !PGONS 2 BOTTOM PGON 3,0,-1,-17,-27,-23 PGON 3,0,-1,19,28,23 PGON 3,0,-1,-18,-28,-24 PGON 3,0,-1,20,29,24 PGON 3,0,-1,-19,-30,-25 PGON 3,0,-1,21,31,25 PGON 3,0,-1,-20,-31,-26 PGON 3,0,-1,22,32,26 !PGONS 3 INNER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,27,41,34 PGON 3,0,-1,30,42,35 PGON 3,0,-1,-11,-41,-33 PGON 3,0,-1,-14,-42,-34 !PGONS 4 OUTER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,-29,-37,-43 PGON 3,0,-1,-32,-38,-44 PGON 3,0,-1,13,36,43 PGON 3,0,-1,16,37,44 !PGONS 5 INNER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,-1,-45,-39 PGON 3,0,-1,-2,-46,-36 PGON 3,0,-1,39,18,46 PGON 3,0,-1,33,17,45 !PGONS 6 OUTER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,5,40,47 PGON 3,0,-1,6,38,48 PGON 3,0,-1,-21,-35,-47 PGON 3,0,-1,-22,-40,-48 BODY -1

Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

rudl — Sat, 30 Dec 2023 10:07:17 GMT

Hi Pertti

Thank you for the suggestion, unfortuantely this does not fix it. While it appears correct in 3D it is not solid anymore if you look into the section.
But I think i found the problem: All pgons have the wrong orientation ^^

As a workaround I could move "all the top vertices to the bottom", by changing the order of the vertices which turns the whole thing inside out.

!EDGESTYLE es= 0! VERT 0,0,0 VERT 0,1,0 VERT 0,2,0 VERT 1,0,0 VERT 1,1,0 VERT 1,2,0 VERT 2,0,0 VERT 2,1,0 VERT 2,2,0 VERT 0,0,1 VERT 0,1,1 VERT 0,2,1 VERT 1,0,1 VERT 1,1,1 VERT 1,2,1 VERT 2,0,1 VERT 2,1,1 VERT 2,2,1 !1 SEC 1 EDGES -> SUBCOUNTB EDGE 1,2,-1,-1,es EDGE 2,3,-1,-1,es EDGE 4,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,6,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,8,-1,-1,es EDGE 8,9,-1,-1,es !7 SEC 2 EDGES -> DIAGONALS EDGE 2,4,-1,-1,es !1,5 EDGE 3,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,7,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,8,-1,-1,es !11 SEC 3 EDGES -> SUBCOUNT EDGE 4,1,-1,-1,es EDGE 5,2,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,3,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,4,-1,-1,es EDGE 8,5,-1,-1,es EDGE 9,6,-1,-1,es !17 SEC 4 EDGES -> SUBCOUNTB2 EDGE 10,11,-1,-1,es EDGE 11,12,-1,-1,es EDGE 13,14,-1,-1,es EDGE 14,15,-1,-1,es EDGE 16,17,-1,-1,es EDGE 17,18,-1,-1,es !23 SEC 5 EDGES -> DIAGONALS2 EDGE 2+9,4+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 3+9,5+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 5+9,7+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 6+9,8+9,-1,-1,es !27 SEC 6 EDGES -> SUBCOUNT2 EDGE 4+9,1+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 5+9,2+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 6+9,3+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 7+9,4+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 8+9,5+9,-1,-1,es EDGE 9+9,6+9,-1,-1,es !33 SEC 7 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER EDGE 1,10,-1,-1,es EDGE 4,13,-1,-1,es EDGE 7,16,-1,-1,es !36 SEC 8 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER EDGE 3,12,-1,-1,es EDGE 6,15,-1,-1,es EDGE 9,18,-1,-1,es !39 SEC 9 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER EDGE 2,11,-1,-1,es !40 SEC 10 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER EDGE 8,17,-1,-1,es !41 SEC 11 EDGES SUBCOUNT INNER DIAGONAL EDGE 10,4,-1,-1,es EDGE 13,7,-1,-1,es !43 SEC 12 EDGES SUBCOUNT OUTER DIAGONAL EDGE 12,6,-1,-1,es EDGE 15,9,-1,-1,es !45 SEC 13 EDGES SUBCOUNTB INNER DIAGONAL EDGE 11,1,-1,-1,es EDGE 12,2,-1,-1,es !47 SEC 14 EDGES SUBCOUNTB OUTER DIAGONAL EDGE 17,7,-1,-1,es EDGE 18,8,-1,-1,es VECT 0,0,1 !PGONS TOP !PGON 3,0,-1,-1,-11,-7 PGON 3,0,-1,1,7,11 PGON 3,0,-1,-3,-7,-12 !PGON 3,0,-1,11,7,-3 ! !PGON 3,0,-1,1,-12,-7 ! PGON 3,0,-1,2,8,12 PGON 3,0,-1,-4,-8,-13 PGON 3,0,-1,3,9,14 PGON 3,0,-1,-5,-9,-15 PGON 3,0,-1,4,10,15 PGON 3,0,-1,-6,-10,-16 !PGONS 2 BOTTOM PGON 3,0,-1,-17,-27,-23 PGON 3,0,-1,19,28,23 PGON 3,0,-1,-18,-28,-24 PGON 3,0,-1,20,29,24 PGON 3,0,-1,-19,-30,-25 PGON 3,0,-1,21,31,25 PGON 3,0,-1,-20,-31,-26 PGON 3,0,-1,22,32,26 !PGONS 3 INNER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,27,41,34 PGON 3,0,-1,30,42,35 PGON 3,0,-1,-11,-41,-33 PGON 3,0,-1,-14,-42,-34 !PGONS 4 OUTER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,-29,-37,-43 PGON 3,0,-1,-32,-38,-44 PGON 3,0,-1,13,36,43 PGON 3,0,-1,16,37,44 !PGONS 5 INNER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,-1,-45,-39 PGON 3,0,-1,-2,-46,-36 PGON 3,0,-1,39,18,46 PGON 3,0,-1,33,17,45 !PGONS 6 OUTER SUBCOUNT PGON 3,0,-1,5,40,47 PGON 3,0,-1,6,38,48 PGON 3,0,-1,-21,-35,-47 PGON 3,0,-1,-22,-40,-48 BODY -1

Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

rudl — Fri, 29 Dec 2023 00:35:31 GMT

Now that I knew that it works in the simple version I went back to the scary parametric verison.
And finally managed to fix it for now. In short it didn't like the 3D hotlines in the script before i did all the Primitive base/verts/edges/Pgons/body 😅😂😂
Moved the hotlines to the end of the script:

Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

runxel — Fri, 29 Dec 2023 22:21:17 GMT

@rudl wrote:

And finally managed to fix it for now. In short it didn't like the 3D hotlines in the script before i did all the Primitive base/verts/edges/Pgons/body 😅😂😂
Moved the hotlines to the end of the script.

Oh that's a very good clue, that we hadn't before without the full version of the script.

It makes sense, in a way, if one understands how the deep the underlaying tech is interwoven. A 3D hotline is nothing else but an actual physical line that has it's edge being hidden. It actually contributes to the model like any other element. (At least I think that is what happens here; I was not aware of this either before to that extent. I knew other model elements like "prism"s and so on do, tho.)

It's generally a good idea to start off building primitives with a BASE command, this will restart the indizes at 0, and also end primitives with a BODY -1.

If you would try that I guess the hotlines could be moved back to the beginning, becaues I think the appearance of them without BASE made them "part" of your ramp.

Re: Solid "Primitive" but wrong?

rudl — Fri, 05 Jan 2024 09:17:44 GMT

@runxel wrote:
Oh that's a very good clue, that we hadn't before without the full version of the script.
It makes sense, in a way, if one understands how the deep the underlaying tech is interwoven. A 3D hotline is nothing else but an actual physical line that has it's edge being hidden. It actually contributes to the model like any other element. (At least I think that is what happens here; I was not aware of this either before to that extent. I knew other model elements like "prism"s and so on do, tho.)

I guess it does make sense 👍
I kind of figured after converting it into a morph, which was also not solid, but after collapsing the hotlines it suddenly did turn solid.

@runxel wrote:
It's generally a good idea to start off building primitives with a BASE command, this will restart the indizes at 0, and also end primitives with a BODY -1.
If you would try that I guess the hotlines could be moved back to the beginning, becaues I think the appearance of them without BASE made them "part" of your ramp.

There was a BASE command between the Hotlines (HOTLINE and LIN_ line to be accurate), and the primitive, seems like they really have to be after the body