topic Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug? in Libraries & objects

Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Rick Thompson — Wed, 24 May 2023 08:53:15 GMT

I have been doing a door schedule for years, and sent many out with no complaints. However today a builder called and told me all the "hand" designations are wrong. I know it is a confusing thing for most of us to get straight, but I assumed the computer was correct. After googling it, they all seem wrong??? I have just used the normal interactive schedule which I'll attach below.

Here is the correct answer>>>
"Stand inside the room with the door opening toward you. if knob is on the left its a left hand door. if knob is on your right its a right hand door. common sense and easy to remember!

All of these answers are right, but, for me, the easiest way is to face the door, with the door opening away from you. If it swings to the right, it is a right handed door. I think this is the simplest way to determine this. Easiest for me to remember anyway."

An AC friend just called and confirmed this huge error. All his schedules are wrong.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Rick Thompson — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:17:43 GMT

Scheme settings, which I don't see any control.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Erika Epstein — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:44:44 GMT

Hi Rick,
Not the answer you want,
there is a custom orientation for opening under parameters where you can override the automatic handing which. But I can't find that field when I try to add it as a parameter. Always a user defined...Pain in the you know what.

I thought there would be a MVO to override for local differences, but didn't see it.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Rick Thompson — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:01:20 GMT

Thanks Erika

This has to work right, right out of the box. There are major liability issues here. I could be expected to pay restocking fees on a lot of doors someone ordered off my plans, and loose clients. GS need to fix this immediately. It's difficult to even determine when this started since it recalculates opening the pln. Maybe it has always been this way and I have been dogging a bullet. I am going to search my mail and see if I can fine pdf versions to check… but IMHO this sucks big time.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Rick Thompson — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:37:07 GMT

It seems AC, US version is set as per Australia.. according to Wikipedia.

I acknowledge I might be missing something.. but…

US = Right hand hinge (RHH): Standing outside (or on the less secure side (i.e., standing on the side you use the key on, going from outside to inside, or from public to private)), the hinges are on the right and the door opens in (away from you).

Note: In Australia, this is different. The refrigerator rule applies (you can't stand in a fridge, the door always opens towards you) - If the hinges are on the left then its a left hand (or left hung) door. If the hinges are on the right then its a right hand (or right hung)

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Barry Kelly — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:15:54 GMT

Rick wrote:
Note: In Australia, this is different. The refrigerator rule applies (you can't stand in a fridge, the door always opens towards you) - If the hinges are on the left then its a left hand (or left hung) door. If the hinges are on the right then its a right hand (or right hung)

I like that fridge analogy - hadn't heard that one before.
Yep for us down under it is as simple as - stand on the side the door opens towards you and it is either left or right hinged

I am not sure if this is what Erika was referring to but if you open the object script and press the DETAILS button you can swap the handing.
The problem is you will need to do this for all your door objects and do it again if they are ever updated.

Barry.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Erika Epstein — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:46:46 GMT

Hi Barry,
No, it wasn't but thanks for pointing out where this can be set.
Now, if only it were in a more easily found location.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Ralph Wessel — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:05:43 GMT

Rick wrote:
US = Right hand hinge (RHH): Standing outside (or on the less secure side (i.e., standing on the side you use the key on, going from outside to inside, or from public to private)), the hinges are on the right and the door opens in (away from you).

We always worked to door hardware manufacturer's guidelines, which was always from the exterior/public/outer side (for security purposes) but the handing was the side the latch/lockset was fitted to - see an example here. Thus doors were designated LHOO (left-hand-open-out), LHOI, RHOO, or RHOI. In some cases, the specification and detailing of each instance is unique.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:50:06 GMT

Well, I've got a door (metal) supplier that works it this way;
If you were to stand with your back to the butts and whatever arm you would swing, would be the swing, ie the correct designation.
However my main door supplier ignores the above and any "security" issue and simply states ALL doors, irregardless of any locking, work like this;
As you pull the door towards you, if the butts are on the right, its right hand.
So the obvious lesson is there is no standard, only the standard of whatever door company your using for that door/job.
How does gs make this more user friendly, don't know, butt it would be nice.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Steve Jepson — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:03:20 GMT

I don't think this can be called a bug because it is just a matter of setting it up as you like it.

Here is how one company calls it. I bet there are some that show otherwise.
It is actually not always perfectly clear. I think I will start putting legend like this( when I find one I like ) next to my door schedules.

http://www.special-lite.com/files/Handing.pdf

Sometimes the bevel is also a part of the designation.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Steve Jepson — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:34:36 GMT

this is a little creepy.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Steve Jepson — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:39:10 GMT

. .

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Steve Jepson — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:41:00 GMT

It can be complicated to set up a schedule that has what you want to show.
By "reverse" do you mean reverse swing or reverse bevel? Are you calling out the jamb, door panel, or lock set ? What if it's a passage door and there is no key and inside or outside is arbitrary ?

This is why better graphics in the schedules is important.

http://www.steeldoor.org/res/A250_7.pdf

Shot at 2012-03-27

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

KeesW — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:58:43 GMT

A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:51:02 GMT

KeesW wrote:
A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!

You point it to the lock (wrong), I point it to the hinge (correct).

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:46:01 GMT

s2art wrote:
KeesW wrote:
A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!
You point it to the lock (wrong), I point it to the hinge (correct).

In the states it points to the hinge side (same with awning/casement/hopper windows). As I recall it's the other way in Europe.

As far as swing directions per US standards, I've always rembered it as swinging in the same direction as my arms. Away to the right is a right hand door. Of course this only applies consistently to simple single doors. Otherwise I rely usually on the elevations.

Regarding the bug: I recall R & L being backwards by default a long time ago but I've been using custom parts for so long now I've forgotten the details and haven't kept up on more recent developments.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Barry Kelly — Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:10:54 GMT

s2art wrote:
KeesW wrote:
A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!
You point it to the lock (wrong), I point it to the hinge (correct).

I always imagine I have 2 hinges and 1 lock (catch) - so the V points to the lock.
That is the way I have done it here in Aus for the last 20 odd years.
But we are upside-down here.

I can see a can of worms being opened here.
But was it opened clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Barry.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:12:45 GMT

Barry wrote:
s2art wrote:
KeesW wrote:
A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!
You point it to the lock (wrong), I point it to the hinge (correct).
I always imagine I have 2 hinges and 1 lock (catch) - so the V points to the lock.
That is the way I have done it here in Aus for the last 20 odd years.
But we are upside-down here.

I can see a can of worms being opened here.
But was it opened clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Barry.

Don't you guys open the can from the bottom?

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:15:20 GMT

s2art wrote:
KeesW wrote:
A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!
You point it to the lock (wrong), I point it to the hinge (correct).

Of course if the latch and hinges are shown this provides a way to check which method is used.

Re: Door hand issue MAJOR Bug?

Stress Co_ — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:32:22 GMT

s2art wrote:
KeesW wrote:
A related issue is the opening symbol shown on elevations. I can never remember if the 'v' points to the hinge or the lock!
You point it to the lock (wrong), I point it to the hinge (correct).

I see that we are now given the option in AC15 (Cadimage D&W builder always did).

I can remember back when the US versions were as AU and I used 2D lines to correct the elevations.