topic Re: GDL objects from manufacturars in Libraries & objects

GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:05:58 GMT

I think architects would love to have more GDL objects. Architects believe it the manufacturars task to supply information. But have you ever asked the manufacturar if he would be willing to supply GDL objects? I guess you didn't, because you think it would not have any effect. What do you think is the best way to induce manufacturars to develop GDL objects?

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:49:19 GMT

Thank you for THE question regarding the libraries.

I would love to have manuf parts etc in GDL format.

BUT, what sane manuf is going to make an object for AC9, ... , 14 ad nauseum...? the following is a quote from a GS insider regarding library part compatibility:

Second, backward compatibility is a tough issue. There is no obvious way to accomplish that. (1) Hotfixing old AC-versions to run the newest GDL is a no-go as GDL is in a strong connection with the model generator context. (2) Omitting extra parameters (providing they are coming from a newer version of GDL) would corrupt error detection and usually new parameters aren't and cannot be added at the end. (3) Omitting unknown commands is against the concept of macro calls in GDL.

I think GS has programmed itself into a corner. Now with the marketing dept calling for yearly upgrades (I just dropped out) how does a manufacturer get their GDL into every AC users hands: both old and new versions?

It has to be simple, clear and efficient for the manufacturer.

Snap

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:17:25 GMT

GDL is very reliable language, the oldest objects I have used are AC7 objects, but I am pretty sure, you can use older parts too.
When a manufacturar asks me to build something, I start preferably in AC12 but older is possible too. Only when a certain GDL command is not available in AC12 I start at 13 or higher (for instance, Model View Options for GDL objects only work from AC 13 and higher).

So I don't see a problem with backwards compatibility, the good thing is the upwards compatibility.

But the question was: how do you think, you can persuade the manufacturars to start with ArchiCAD objects?

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 04:34:44 GMT

OK - brainstorming...

I'd try to find how many AC users there are and then lobby for the products I use and tell the manuf," I use your product and there are 250K(?) other AC users out there." (PS I have NO idea how many AC users there are).

Maybe GS ought to try to find out the AC community's priorities for vendors/parts and start lobbying those vendors.

Anderson provided GDL parts some time ago, I haven't followed their progress. Contact them to find out how they made that decision and how they feel about it now. Their have to be other companies like Anderson.

Come to think: I don't even know how many companies already provide GDL parts.
OK, so start a database of existing GDL providers, get the AC users to become aware of them, ans start using their parts. I think making the manufacturers investment in GDL "pay off" in increased visibility to the Architect and Engineer community would be another strategy.

As a GDL scripter perhaps you could market yourself as a solution provider to getting vendors you think have a large enough presence to get "in the door" with AC users. Look at the McGraw-Hill "Sweets" site would tell you which vendors have already invested in CAD ready 2D and 3D parts. Focusing on those with 3D parts would be one start point. That's the US market, I am uninformed about other markets.

I gotta think there are only going to be so many companies interested. The company with a huge market share would be an obvious candidate as well the little guy willing to try anything, in between those extremes I dunno. So I'd begin at the extremes.

Snap

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:22:56 GMT

Hi,

it may have to try to explain them that it's not just a GDL library that can use architects who are working with ArchiCAD, but it's a CAD (BIM) solution for all architects using CAD softwares.
It run in native in ArchiCAD and it can use AutoCAD users by Adapter and the other CAD users with the help of WEB Control. It's just ONE but intelligent library, and all the architects can use it.

Yes, you are right the manufacturers would like to get at all the potential users.

cheers,

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

gpowless — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:35:57 GMT

Funny this should come up as a topic of discussion today. I just received a copy of an email from Arxx, a manufacturer of Insulating Concrete Forms (ICF) in Canada:

[excerpt] Valued ARXX Distributor,
As industry methods evolve to meet the increasing complexity and multiple requirements for information and data related to construction, sustainable design and building life cycle analysis, it’s important that ARXX leads the way with the tools necessary to make designing and building with ARXX ICFs easy and efficient.
That is why over the past few weeks we have been working to integrate our ICF product lines for use with Building Information Modeling (BIM). BIM is a very powerful tool used by design professionals on a daily basis. The new ARXX 3D models developed for BIM puts all of our ICF product information in the hands of design professionals. ....

[excerpt]All of the ARXX BIM files are available through Autodesk® Seek. Autodesk is the industry leading online source for building product information that allows design professionals to search, select and specify the best building materials for their projects. ARXX ICF products have been developed as a family of 3D details for Autodesk Revit® software versions 2009 and 2010. The RVT, DWG, DWF and DXF files are all available for download including any relevant marketing and specification materials through Autodesk Seek.

I sent them a terse letter indicating my extreme disappointment. Those who want to shout back at them can send an email to:

marketing@arxx.com

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:11:49 GMT

@snap
listing companies who already have GDL is a good idea when the numbers are large. Unfortunately the number is quite limited, as shown in this list by Endre Ilauszky.

The McGraw-idea is worth checking out.

On my website I already have a list with 10 advantages of GDL for manufacturars. The problem is getting the manufacturars there. I don't employ numerous product managers who go out on the road and persuade manufacturars

@Endre
Do you have experience with autocad-users working with the GDL adapter?
Do you have an example of a manufacturar with the GDL web control?

@gpowless
Good idea, if every ArchiCAD user on this forum would contact Arxx, I doubt they can ignore it.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:31:31 GMT

gpowless wrote:
...............
I sent them a terse letter indicating my extreme disappointment. Those who want to shout back at them can send an email to:

marketing@arxx.com

Not terse, but done.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Brett Brown — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 22:28:29 GMT

Master wrote:
I think architects would love to have more GDL objects. Architects believe it the manufacturars task to supply information. But have you ever asked the manufacturar if he would be willing to supply GDL objects? I guess you didn't, because you think it would not have any effect. What do you think is the best way to induce manufacturars to develop GDL objects?

Here in New Zealand we have a Company called Productspec. They have there own in house Revit and Archicad content makers. For the Company's that advertise on there site, they quote to make content for there products as well.
They also offer behind the scenes tools for these Company's to see what products are viewed the most for example. They also advise company's how many inquires they have had for there specific products and that tells the Company if the cost of content is worth it.
The Company's I have spoken with are very happy with Productspec's model so we all win one way or the other, Revit and Archicad users.
It all hinges on enquiries, so the more Archicad content inquiries will benefit Archicad.
Unfortunately for Archicad, there seems to be an Earthquake movement towards Revit in New Zealand.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 22:46:47 GMT

Getting quite a few Trade Reps coming in now saying they have Revit objects / details on their websites. I try to steer them towards Archicad too, as I believe it is still more popular than Revit here (not based on any factual evidence, just my perception), but not sure what the future holds. Have downloaded a couple of things from Productspec, mostly DWG 2D details though. They don't have much Archicad 3D content yet.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:42:52 GMT

AC marketshare is some fraction of the "5% other", see attached.
Apparently not even worthy of mention by name.

Chart is for all CAD not BIM only. However in my online reading
it appears that BIM is poorly understood. In fact one article
complained that whenever the author asked firms about their
BIM plans, they usually responded saying something about 3D,
not understanding that BIM is really 4D or 5D depending.
4D is becoming more common to describe BIM and underline its
"the next thing" status.

Interesting that we are using software that is a technology class
that is so misunderstood. I read articles about "Is BIM the next thing?"
Reminds me of the "overnight success", usually there is 10 or 20 years of
solid work behind the overnight success.

Also AIA reports 16% of membership uses BIM.

Snap

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:24:01 GMT

Hi Master Script,

Yes we have already done some solutions with GDL WEB control to manufacturers.
Example: In the site: http://www.roto-tetoablak.hu/rotocad the "Árajánlatkészítő" is an "Quote maker" solution to ROTO roofwindow manufacturer.
Or : http://tetoszamitas.interdox.hu/cserepmennyiseg/index_cserepmennyiseg.html# With the help of this simple solution you can to calculate TONDACH tiles volumes.

Etc.

We have just a few feedback about GDL Adapter. But I think we have to convince the manufacturers not the users.

More and more i think that users would pay for the solutions if you want to more feedback 🙂

Cheers,

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:54:44 GMT

@Endre,

thanks for examples. Nice usage of the GDL Web control for Tondach, I must keep that in mind.
I need to know if the GDL adapter works suffienctly, because most of manufacturars have autocad. There when I say it works, it must actually work. I'll try it.

@snap
where did you get this info?

@Brett and Stuart
As I understand the revit content on website is no more than static objects, no parametric at all. We could start overflowing the object depository by uploading manufacturar -but static- gsm objects, but I don't think ArchiCAD users will appreciate.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:27:09 GMT

Master Script,

I searched "BIM market share" and "CAD market share".

The pie chart comes from here. Also here.

The Vector Works site claims 450,000 users (and 15% on pie chart).
If the pie chart is correct, then 5% = 150,000 and AC users are some fraction of that.
My starting assumption would be 2.5% (for fun) thus 75,000 users.
However the Forum has 40,000 registered users. I think given usual
participation figures that would imply at least triple (ie 33% on Forum)
giving a user number of 120,000 for AC. Guesswork on top of guesswork...
So I'm prone to use 100,000 active AC users as a reasonable guess.

Snap

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Mats_Knutsson — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 16:28:44 GMT

Snap wrote:
Master Script,

I searched "BIM market share" and "CAD market share".

The pie chart comes from here. Also here.

The Vector Works site claims 450,000 users (and 15% on pie chart).
If the pie chart is correct, then 5% = 150,000 and AC users are some fraction of that.
My starting assumption would be 2.5% (for fun) thus 75,000 users.
However the Forum has 40,000 registered users. I think given usual
participation figures that would imply at least triple (ie 33% on Forum)
giving a user number of 120,000 for AC. Guesswork on top of guesswork...
So I'm prone to use 100,000 active AC users as a reasonable guess.

Snap

Strange figures. Must vary a lot between different parts of the world. Would like to see Europe figures. Europe is the center of the world...right US!?...😉

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Brett Brown — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:55:02 GMT

Master wrote:
@Brett and Stuart
As I understand the revit content on website is no more than static objects, no parametric at all. We could start overflowing the object depository by uploading manufacturar -but static- gsm objects, but I don't think ArchiCAD users will appreciate.

I would have thought Manufactures only supply static objects of the products they actually manufacture. Pointless having a parametric door closer if they make only one size. The Windows/doors are all Parametric.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:02:21 GMT

Within a product you can always choose different materials, sizes or extra options. These could easily be parametric.

Re: GDL objects from manufacturars

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 02:34:15 GMT

Mats,

So we might ask what markets have reliable information?
A reasonable facsimile for locating markets with reliable data
could be the World Bank "Ease of Doing Business" reports.
Look here for this interesting chart.

Top three countries:
Singapore
New Zealand
Hong Kong

So the center of the world is proven to be "East of Java".

Snap