topic Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository. in Libraries & objects

Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:03:09 GMT

I notice there are many posts asking whether particular objects exist and where they can be found.

In many cases they usually do exist but there is no easy way to find them. There are probably over 50 sites all containing various objects, so a lot of time can be wasted looking.

One solution would be to place a copy of all the objects into one place, ideally the Depository. Unfortunately I can see the many of the free object makers 'objecting' (ha ha!) to that, because they lose any control over the object, and it would also reduce the number of people coming to their site which they may fund with advertising. It would also completely rule out any of the objects found on paid sites like Objectsonline, and SDBs Objectstop, which are often the best quality and most suited to the job.

Here's the idea. How about upgrading the Object Depository, and turn it into a GDL object index which gives you all the necessary information and a preview image of the object, but actually links to the owners download page on their site where the object is actually stored. Of course any objects uploaded like they are at the moment should be indexed in the same system.

I'd like to see a dedicated search system introduced, and tags would also simplify finding the correct item. You must also be able to link directly to any particular object simply for convenience in the forums.

There should also be some indication that clearly shows whether an object is free or not before having to go to the site, as people may not be interested in an object that costs money.

A user feedback system to help rate individual objects would help promote quality, and should be a vote-once-per-username system like we have for polls. A comments area to add suggestions and improvements may be useful.

This would solve many issues :-

- Graphisoft would still be able to retain control over the quality and organisation of the Depository.
- It would help popularise the use of GDL models by making it easier for people to find what they want a lot faster.
- GDL makers would get more hits from one centralised place which would increase their sales.
- People would still be led to GDL makers' individual websites enabling them to highlight more of their own objects and also receive the benefit of google ad views/clicks.
- It would still provide a place for amateur GDL coders to upload their objects for everyone to use.

Of course when GS get their **** in gear and provide a decent visual GDL builder (:wink:), the number of objects freely available will explode and the current Depository just would not be able to cope, so a new solution is going to have to be developed in the future, regardless.

Does anyone think this could be a good idea? Would it even work?

It's ironic that we have the most intelligent objects, but the 'dumbest' solution for organising them!

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:09:40 GMT

Thanks Peter.
Nice explanation of the current state of objects.
Absolutely essential.
No wonder I've been so confused by it all!
Also makes me think my own object organizing house
(folder system) needs organizing, for sure!
lec

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Erika Epstein — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:49:01 GMT

And when you are looking for a library part set it to SUBTYPE View rather than Folder View. This way the the appropriate subtype, e.g. sinks, will show sinks from all loaded libraries.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:06:44 GMT

Hi Peter

i couldn't agree more. Believe it or not (without getting to into it) i sent GS a proposal over a month ago to help them do exactly what your outlining. As usual no reply. (funny how both the marketing managers @ Autodesk & Bentley will talk to me, but GS can't even be bothered to reply).

You may notice our site at Objectstop.com already has many of the features you have outlined; rating, easy uploading & downloading, tagging, good search, comment system, sharing etc etc etc, You can now even log in with your facebook, google or twitter account. (In one day, we could launch a better, prettier & more interactive forum than this one)

We would love to work with GS to help implement a decent central depositary/marketplace. That would ultimately benefit them the most (i'm not the one selling the software). The proposal didn't even require much on their behalf..

Maybe this thread will get them to reply to my email? let's all hope so.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Erich — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:08:23 GMT

This would make the Depository much more useful both to those of us that post objects there as well as to the rest of the Archicad users just looking for a part. I particularly like the idea of a user rating system and feedback. This will help developers make their products more useful for the users and help users choose objects effectively.

While I doubt that we could get an index of all of the parts available on the net, any amount of centralization would be helpful. I would say that we should also get to see parts from other countries not just those in a certain localization. Some of the parts from the non-English speaking localizations are quite a bit better that what we have, at least in the US. An some of us are more than monolingual. We just need to be able to see what language is used in the part when displayed in the index to aid the choice of whether to try it or not.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Thomas Holm — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:14:38 GMT

Absolutely brilliant idea! Everyone should vote Essential on this poll. It would make third-party object finding much easier, and thus add a lot of value to Archicad. GS would have to appoint someone to keep the links current, but I'm sure it would pay off in the end.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

vistasp — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:21:52 GMT

Totally agree. I'm sure a lot of us have though of something like this vaguely (or otherwise) but I think Peter has captured the essence of what it required. And Sketchup's 3D Warehouse is a good example to follow.

Let's not forget that Peter has also wished for an easy visual way to create GDL objects. This is a long-standing (and possibly separate) demand but if it's combined with Depository 2.0 the number of objects available would explode. Of course, you'd get good with bad but that's where a rating system would help weed out the junk.

One thing I'd like to add: Objects converted from 3ds etc. should be specifically labelled as such.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:30:17 GMT

I vote essential!

And it would be great if it could have RSS feeds for each object... Users want to be sure their libraries are updated!

Let's see if this time GS will give this project a real push!

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

vistasp — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:55:15 GMT

Braza wrote:
Let's see if this time GS will give this project a real push!

With the hectic version schedule I wonder if promoting GDL will ever get much importance.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:08:30 GMT

I vote Essential too.

But I really believe that it is completely undoable…:roll:

It is really an ENoooORMOooooUS job, internet move so quickly. The libraries are sometime updaten (or not), The site changes often of adresses.

We try to do a so little part of this job with WikiCadlink…

Some interesting job done to follow object in OpenGDL

Or in the Olivier Dentan site

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:24:11 GMT

Fmr wrote:
It is really an ENoooORMOooooUS job, internet move so quickly. The libraries are sometime updaten (or not), The site changes often of adresses.

I agree Fmr...

But if the depository apply a straight policy where, for example, unupdated low rated links/objects were deleted, it would keep just the good ones and consequently the satisfaction of the users...
Then gradually the depository would become a reference in the BIM community and its traffic would certainly attract manufacturers attention.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Thomas Holm — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:32:32 GMT

Fmr wrote:
I vote Essential too.
But I really believe that it is completely undoable…:roll:
It is really an ENoooORMOooooUS job, internet move so quickly. The libraries are sometime updaten (or not), The site changes often of adresses.
We try to do a so little part of this job with WikiCadlink…
Some interesting job done to follow object in OpenGDL
Or in the Olivier Dentan site

Wait a minute - I would like to interprete Peter's idea so that among the categorised objects, we also have links to other (categorised) object sites, like for instance furniture manufacturers.

I don't see the need for Graphisoft to track each and every individual object. If the manufacturer or object producer wants to include the individual objects in the depository, fine, but that must be his decision.

The important thing with this idea is that we users don't have to search the whole internet for objects and sites and keep track of them ourselves, because GS keeps track of the sites!

This is by no means an impossible task. There have been several more or less successful attempts by various parts previously, but this would put it all in the right place!

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:54:45 GMT

Some excellent points raised. It's nice to see that others have come to similar conclusions about the situation!

Erika wrote:
And when you are looking for a library part set it to SUBTYPE View rather than Folder View. This way the the appropriate subtype, e.g. sinks, will show sinks from all loaded libraries.

If there were 200 sinks, rather than just one crude 'subtype' I'd like to narrow it down a little further. It would be useful to filter by the style (modern, traditional), the material (ceramic, stone, metal), mounting type (in-worktop, back-to-wall, semi-worktop) etc.

sdb wrote:
i sent GS a proposal over a month ago to help them do exactly what your outlining. As usual no reply.

To be fair to them, I suspect the marketing department might be just a *little* bit busy at the moment for some reason! I've no doubt GS has thought of similar ideas themselves, so hopefully threads like this may help them assess the level of interest out there.

Erich wrote:
We just need to be able to see what language is used in the part when displayed in the index to aid the choice of whether to try it or not

Definitely!

Vistasp wrote:
One thing I'd like to add: Objects converted from 3ds etc. should be specifically labelled as such.

Essential! It would be great to display the polycount of each object.

Fmr wrote:
The libraries are sometime updaten (or not), The site changes often of adresses.

We try to do a so little part of this job with WikiCadlink...

I'm not so sure. The majority of the objects you have linked to in Oct 2005 still seem to be there, but then again the world of GDL moves slowly at the moment! I don't think it's necessary to always link directly to the object itself, just a link to the site and the knowledge the object you need is on it would be 10x more convenient than anything we have currently. A link straight to the objects' page would just be a bonus!

Interestingly your post highlights the very point this thread is about - I had no idea that two of those sites you linked to even existed! All the hard work that has gone into creating those sites and the content contained within with no easy way of getting people to use them.

Thomas wrote:
I don't see the need for Graphisoft to track each and every individual object. If the manufacturer or object producer wants to include the individual objects in the depository, fine, but that must be his decision.

I'm not sure I agree with that. There should be a concerted effort to list every object that is available on those sites for the Index/Depository to be of any use. Telling me there might be something useful on a site, but not exactly what it was is no better than the existing system!

I don't think GS would want to be responsible for that long and boring task of actually finding the objects. Their time is better spent elsewhere. A team of enthusiastic ArchiCAD users scouring the web themselves would do a faster and better job!

The best way may be for users to provide most of the links, fill out all the descriptions, create tags, and then 'submit' them to be approved where they can be quickly checked for accuracy. Manufacturers could do this as well if they want, but I'm sure someone else would add the links if they didn't.

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:36:36 GMT

Just a link to the idea of the Multi-Language database in objects of Franck Beister

Peter wrote:
I'm not so sure. The majority of the objects you have linked to in Oct 2005 still seem to be there, but then again the world of GDL moves slowly at the moment

I Upgrade very oftenly adresses of site just make a try in this sites well maintained ArchiCAD.lap and U will find some dead links make the same try here or here or qui.

And the full job is to be precisely at the right page of the right site to get the right archiCAD object.

In this way the idea of the GDL object Depositery was really wonderful to get all this stuff in only ONE area easy to load… 😉

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:33:20 GMT

I vote Essential.

My vote is a general accordance that GS HQ have to be pay more attention for GDL. So, I belive they will do that.

I have pass GS HQ to my idea also early in the year. But this solution based on GS has to bring up the manufacturers to ArchiCAD, because the building (etc.) manufacturers seeking the contact with the architects. I think across this opportunity would be strengthen the GDL also.

Quality control of the objects:
1.) I think it’s impossible the GS centralized control of the outdoor objects.
2.) Nevertheless, while the manufacturer’s object under their quality control - they starkly have a stake in, there aren’t control in the individual objects (non manufacturer’s) it depends on the developer’s motion.

Localized versions:
1.) In the individual objects it depends anytime on the developer’s motion, altough it may be easier if the are so many user in the forums who committed to translate the objects to their languages.
2.) It would be needful a well-deliberated GS system for manufacturers in this case probably there would be more localized manufacturers objects (libraries) in the globe. (There was a short discussion with Braza about something similar at the Tondach and Velux topic)

User feedback:
1.) It would be really important. But usually we haven’t more feedback from the AC user after they got the objects (manufacturer’s libraries, etc.)
2.) I would thoughtfully interest from the other object developers (Objectsonline, Objectstop, etc.) about their experience.

Cheers,

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:59:58 GMT

What they need to do is build an itunes like store/marketplace. Good quality control, free & paid for content etc etc,

I find it hard to see why it is 'such a big job' for them, when it would actually be quite profitable! Why else would autodesk seek exists?

Re: Ideas for updating the Object Depository.

Anonymous — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:48:41 GMT

What they need to do is build an itunes like store/marketplace. Good quality control, free & paid for content etc etc,

You’re right, an professional itunes like store/marketplace would be a good feature for users. It probably cuts down the search of GDL objects in the internet.

Nevertheless, I think a good feature/system for manufacturers in ArchiCAD would be a good strategic decision to bring more business for the real BIM content developers and GS and it would be forsooth useful for users also.