topic Re: 13 and library handling question in Libraries & objects

13 and library handling question

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 07:40:12 GMT

Hi all

I just picked a little bit out of comment Fabrizio made in another thread regarding 13 and the way it handles libraries! I was just wondering if anyone involved in Beta testing or anyone using it already can tell me if this is going to cause any dramas?
Even if it is as minute as reselecting the library path at load up!

Re: 13 and library handling question

Rick Thompson — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:43:08 GMT

I'm sure (?) it's a good thing overall for most, but it's not my favorite thing. Embedding parts should help some people, but I think it creates some problems too. For instance... I have many plns I use over and over. I have "standard" stairs I have made I use on different plns. Now, if you make a new stair it doesn't easily and automatically show up for widespread use. It is embedded. You have to select that part, open a dialogue and choose from there to save it also in a special folder. That's just a pain in my opinion, plus it's easy to get duplicate parts warnings. Also, I used to copy and paste stairs from my template since that was so easy, especially when you have a wall under it clipped for proper display. Now, you get a duplicate library warning when you open that file.

So, I am still having issue with the whole library concept. It has serious issues for me, but I admit my needs are not typical. Having a new name for the same basic part for each release is awful for me (ie.. cabinet12... cabinet 13 etc), but evidently solves some long standing issues for others. I don't like that al all. It makes library management for me a lot of work. I use Smart Parts windows and door for this reason alone. They are not perfect, but objects evolve with new releases, they are not replaced by another object, almost identical, but de-bugged.

Maybe others have a different opinion, and it might be great for you needs.

Re: 13 and library handling question

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:09:09 GMT

Personally, I think that the problem with stairmaker, Rick, is a bug. (The designers might have been thinking they were doing users a favor though.)

Attached is the "Save Library Part" dialog when you save a stair from Stairmaker.

The "Save to:" control is a button, but when you click it here, "Embedded Library" is the only choice. (New Folder just creates a new folder in the embedded library.)

But, when you save a GDL object from the 3D window (for example), the same dialog appears, but you have another choice for "Save to:" - browsing to a folder as always. Personally, I think this option should also happen for Stairmaker for the reasons you give.

ArchiStair 2 (Cigraph) does not have this issue, because a new library part is not created - rather, parameters are set for its common stair part in the Archistair library.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: 13 and library handling question

ztaskai — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:03:01 GMT

Hi,

Karl wrote:
Personally, I think that the problem with stairmaker, Rick, is a bug.
...

Karl is right as usual. The mechanism behind this switch (and its teamwork consequences) couldn't be implemented in API add-ons for v13. It is targeted in v14.

Back to embedded library: it shouldn't affect your company standard or any other standard libraries. It is there for the project specific elements only. It's a shame is created a hassle when saving add-on created standard elements...

Regs,
Zsolt

Re: 13 and library handling question

Karl Barker — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:02:45 GMT

One suggestion for a work around for this would be to add the standard stair parts to your company standard library.
I have a system in my office where at the end of a few projects (no point doing it every time a project finishes) I go through the special 'one off' library parts and materials and alike and decide if they need to be added to our company standard library.
Tends to be quite useful in that people are not having to re-invent the wheel time and again, and all our library parts are in one of only a couple of libraries, instead of having to trawl through hold projects, thinking there was a useful part that is could use again.

I do however have one little bug bear with the new library loading dialogue.
There is no longer a history of recently used libraries.
I always found that to be the firs place I would go to load libraries, as then I generally knew that I was loading the latest of my libraries.
At least thought the navigation is better new.
It was a bit AC6.5 up until now.

Cheers,
Karl.

Re: 13 and library handling question

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:35:13 GMT

Karl wrote:
I do however have one little bug bear with the new library loading dialogue.
There is no longer a history of recently used libraries.

This was mentioned early in beta testing by many people. I find the lack of the old history list very frustrating - most of what I wanted for new projects was always just a click away there. We can only hope that it might be returned in a future release.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: 13 and library handling question

vistasp — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:28:55 GMT

Karl wrote:
There is no longer a history of recently used libraries.

Why GS?

Re: 13 and library handling question

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 03:03:56 GMT

I suspect the reason "why" is that teamwork thinking has been adopted as THE philosophy.

TW2 requires a server specific library download and does not allow paths to other libraries. A history button becomes redundant. (Maybe GS decided people might would not like to work in a stand alone configuration anymore?).

Yet another issue to digest in the migration to AC13...

Re: 13 and library handling question

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 03:42:47 GMT

Karl wrote:
Karl wrote:
I do however have one little bug bear with the new library loading dialogue.
There is no longer a history of recently used libraries.
This was mentioned early in beta testing by many people. I find the lack of the old history list very frustrating - most of what I wanted for new projects was always just a click away there. We can only hope that it might be returned in a future release.

yes, it's a real hassle. hopefully they add it as a part of the next update!

Re: 13 and library handling question

Rakela Raul — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:25:19 GMT

I wasn't able to give solutions and big good news... I can confirm though that migration is a high priority issue for ArchiCAD development. I hope you'll see some improvement even for v14. Thank you for the feedback - there will be some serious thinking about it at GS HQ.

Regs,
Zsolt

i thought you gentlemen might want to know this

Re: 13 and library handling question

Ben Cohen — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:48:09 GMT

Kristian wrote:
Even if it is as minute as reselecting the library path at load up!

Hi Kristian

The new library manager is a definite step backwards. As stated by someone, there is now no history tab, so your users will have to fish around the file system with many clicks to load your new ArchiCAD 13 libraries. You can (on the Mac) now drag and drop the library folder on to the new library manager, but it will not work with a shortcut/alias which means the user will have to navigate to the libraries on the server and then again on their machine to relink your 12 projects to the new 13 libraries.
Then if you are opening a library part from the file system there are additional clicks needed to go to the currently linked libraries. If you are doing a lot of GDL this is a pain.
There are now linked and embedded library parts. For larger offices like ours that will never use embedded library parts because all objects are made by the CAD manager, the whole thing is a pain.

Re: 13 and library handling question

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:36:34 GMT

Ahhh sh*t! That really isn't what I wanted to hear mate!!
I kind of had a feeling with the talk of history being nixed that there would be issues! I knew it wouldn't be an all positive upgrade!!
Oh well I guess I'll just have to wait a couple weeks then test it and see how bad it really is!

Thanks for the heads up though Ben!

Re: 13 and library handling question

Piotr Dobrowolski — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:23:51 GMT

Ben wrote:
You can (on the Mac) now drag and drop the library folder on to the new library manager, but it will not work with a shortcut/alias which means....

On PC it works too (it was working with the old lib manager).
And shortcuts work too - but they have to be inside the folder that is loaded as a library.

Best Regards,
Piotr

Re: 13 and library handling question

Greg Kmethy — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:50:44 GMT

Dear talkers,

Just wanted to share this link with you:
http://archicadwiki.com/Teamwork/ManageLibrary

This is where we collect all the Library-related questions in AC 13 Teamwork.
One important note: If you work in Teamwork, you must embed objects created by Add-ons, like stairs and trusses. Otherwise you will not be able to edit these.

Re: 13 and library handling question

Ben Cohen — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:19:12 GMT

thanks for the link Greg, very interesting reading.... a whole new methodology

So it seems we should be now looking at using BIM Server libraries instead of loading libraries direct from the server. This should reduce our network traffic considerably, as well as speed up ArchiCAD. I will do some testing and post the results.

but please bring back the library manager history

Re: 13 and library handling question

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:54:11 GMT

Ben wrote:
but please bring back the library manager history

Ben,
Make a wish, I will vote essential!

Re: 13 and library handling question

Ben Cohen — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:39:34 GMT

OK, first impressions are very positive. A bit of background.... we have about 25 licenses scattered over 3 connected networks, all run from a massive network rack running Exchange Server, VMware and Netbox. We currently keep our libraries on the server and they are loaded directly, which means everytime a user opens ArchiCAD the libraries are loaded from the server. I know that loading the libraries on the c: drive of each machine will result in better performance but I much prefer the convenience of everyone loading the exact same library. (I have looked into sync software but nothing seemed suitable) I also use a Mac and I have the only Mac among 100+ machines, currently my only problem has been opening projects, the libraries look for a PC file path but ArchiCAD on the Mac wants a Mac file path and I need to point to the correct library everytime I load a project. (I often boot windows for template and other serious work)

1. Installation of BIM server. Easy
2. Discovery of BIM Server from AC 13 was problematic, I eventually needed to reboot the server box. Bridging the networks was the problem I think
3. BIM manager is very nice, works the same for Mac and PC.
4. Loaded the company library on to the BIM server. Local machines then sync the library with server. Everything works as expected.

Conclusion.
Pros. I originally thought the BIM server was only required for teamwork projects. But on closer inspection it will benefit those in large companies, doing small projects. Two issues have been resolved for us. A - The benefits of keeping company libraries on the local machine can be realized but without the synchronization issues B - Mac and PC File path issues for the libraries are now removed. (I haven't looked into hotlinks but I think they remain the same.)
Cons. No library manager history. When you have literally hundreds of models to manage, the laborious job of relinking libraries from one version of ArchiCAD to another was somewhat relieved by the library manager history. It will be nice to see it come back (I think libraries can be loaded through the API - seems that maybe another option but above my current API skill level)

Re: 13 and library handling question

Erika Epstein — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:38:22 GMT

Ben wrote:
Cons. No library manager history. When you have literally hundreds of models to manage, the laborious job of relinking libraries from one version of ArchiCAD to another was somewhat relieved by the library manager history. It will be nice to see it come back (I think libraries can be loaded through the API - seems that maybe another option but above my current API skill level)

We asked for this in the beta.

Re: 13 and library handling question

Dennis Lee — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:59:43 GMT

I have the company library uploaded to the bim server, and everything is fine. Until I had to make a 2D custom object, and save it to the company library.

I opened the bim server library manager, and clicked refresh, and it will not refresh, even though there is a new object.

I tried the RELOCATE button and click the folder (which didn't move), and it refreshes.

Is this a bug?

Re: 13 and library handling question

Steve Jepson — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:35:37 GMT

I am having all sorts of trouble trying to get my MEP library in to a TeamWork file. I have tried more ways than I care to list here and I can't do it. No wonder libraries won't load properly. These are not library file types.

The .lcf files I am trying to load don't show up even though the file is located here on the desktop.