topic Re: GUID in Libraries & objects

GUID

vfrontiers — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:35:17 GMT

Is it something I'm doing, or is it inherent in the system.

I've got an old part created some years back. Yesterday, I wanted to update it and SAVE as an AC12 object. All works just fine until the next time I open the file.

The old part AND the new part have the SAME GUID... so every instance of the NEW part that I placed (with new features) is now replaced by the OLD part and are missing all the new features.

These particular objects are actually LABELS, so I can't use the REPLACE w/ PARAMETERS feature of regular objects.

Anyone?

Re: GUID

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:33:20 GMT

Hi Duane,

Does this link help at all? -

http://www.archicadwiki.com/Update_library_parts_with_missing_GUID?highlight=%28Template%29%7C%28ArchiCAD+12/TechNotes%29%7C%28%E2%80%A2+ArchiCAD+12%29

Re: GUID

David Maudlin — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:37:43 GMT

Duane:

In order to change the GUID, you need to Save As... rather than Save... the library part. The same problem happens if the part is copied in the Finder (the GUID remains the same). There is a more detailed explanation here: ArchiCADWiki GUID.

HTH

David

Re: GUID

vfrontiers — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:41:08 GMT

David wrote:
Duane:

In order to change the GUID, you need to Save As... rather than Save... the library part. The same problem happens if the part is copied in the Finder (the GUID remains the same). There is a more detailed explanation here: ArchiCADWiki GUID.

HTH

David

Yes David... Parts were OPENED in the GDL editor and SAVED AS a new name...

Short of taking the old one out of the Library, I am not sure how to resolve this issue.

Re: GUID

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:29:08 GMT

Hello Duane,
Please see this thread by Karl Ottenstein.
He describes the new behavior of library parts in AC 12
in which library parts are exclusively identified by there
GUID alone, the name is not considered.
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=23833
So saving a library part in AC 12 under a new name does not work.
The only way I can see to get the GUID to get changed is to change
something in the library part and then save. This could be done by
creating a dummy parameter or changing the script with something
like ADDx 1 then DEL 1 and then saving. After that you could open
the library part again and delete the changes and save again.
From what I understand of what Karl is saying and the what is
said in the .pdf that Karl references this seems to be at least
one way to get the GUID changed.
Peter Devlin

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:27:59 GMT

I just tried with a simple object.
"Saved as" with a new name.
GUID was identical in both.
Closed the file and re-opened and all was fine.
New objects were still new objects and old ones were still old ones.
No mention of duplicate parts in the library loading report.

I was wondering if your new lable was not saved in the loaded library when you re-opened the file - hence it substituted the old part with the same GUID.

So I moved the new object from my library and re-loaded.
Report said library part missing.
So even though the GUIDs were the same the new part was not replaced with the old part which is what I thought was supposed to happen?
It just became a missing object red dot.

Maybe lables behave differently (I don't use them which is why I tested with an object).

Barry.

Re: GUID

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:26:51 GMT

Hello Barry,
Is there the equivalent of "AC 12 New US Library Features.pdf"
accessed through the Help menu in the AUS version of AC 12 ?
Maybe "AC 12 New AUS Library Features.pdf".
Have you read it ? Frankly, I am not sure if what it states as
how it works now is the same as what you observed or not.
If you have read the pdf, do you think it is saying is how it works
now corresponds to what you have observed ?
Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:04:02 GMT

Peter wrote:
Hello Barry,
Is there the equivalent of "AC 12 New US Library Features.pdf"
accessed through the Help menu in the AUS version of AC 12 ?
Maybe "AC 12 New AUS Library Features.pdf".
Have you read it ? Frankly, I am not sure if what it states as
how it works now is the same as what you observed or not.
If you have read the pdf, do you think it is saying is how it works
now corresponds to what you have observed ?
Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Hi Peter,
No we don't have that document but I have just read the US one.
It doesn't seem to be exactly what I am experiencing.

Here's a quote.

If the original object is duplicated by some method that does not use ArchiCAD’s Save As… command, its unique identifier remains the same, and ArchiCAD will consider these objects to be completely identical (because their GUIDs are identical), even if their names are different.

Now I just did a "save as" but did not modify the object so the GUID remained exactly the same.

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

They look pretty identical to me.

But on deleteing the new object and re-loading the library it still seemed to refer to the name and not the GUID.
Completely at odds with the opening statement in that document.

Starting with ArchiCAD 12, the program no longer considers library part names when identifying library parts.

So I don't see it happening exactly as explained.
Barry.

Re: GUID

vfrontiers — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:20:56 GMT

Peter wrote:
Hello Duane,
[clip]So saving a library part in AC 12 under a new name does not work.
The only way I can see to get the GUID to get changed is to change
something in the library part and then save. [clip]
Peter Devlin

Ok... so is it that I SAVED AS immediately and then changed the part? Because there were significant change made to it... I am not for certain sure, but it is possible that I opened the part and SAVED AS without editing [cuz I don't want to accidently save over the original as many others are still using the old one]

But clearly, the part in the plan changed BACK to the old part (name change obvious) and the new part was available in the list of labels in the label tool.

Scratching my head,

Re: GUID

Greg Kmethy — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:08:56 GMT

Barry wrote:

Now I just did a "save as" but did not modify the object so the GUID remained exactly the same.

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

They look pretty identical to me.

Barry,

Where do you check the GUID of the library parts? I just tried what happens if you open and "save as" a library part, and it did get a completely new GUID. I used the "open object by subtype" dialog to check the GUID of the parts:

Re: GUID

vfrontiers — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:33:52 GMT

I can tell you that EVERY TIME I close and open this teamwork file, 4 windows change from my own created Window OPENING to W1 Fixed 12. All of sudden, yesterday it changed to W1 CASEMENT 12.

Let me repeat that this happens EVERY TIME... Did I mention that it happens every time?

Each time I have to INDIVIDUALLY select a window, change to my window (fortunately I can transfer A & B) , but the other parameters have to be reset.

Something needs to be done here.

Re: GUID

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:08:13 GMT

Duane, what happens if you delete those 4 Windows, save and close the file, open it, then place them anew? Maybe some setting got stuck in the file which will be gone if you delete the element it is linked to. Then a brand new element you just placed will not be affected - that's my reasoning.

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 04:56:17 GMT

gkmethy wrote:
Barry wrote:

Now I just did a "save as" but did not modify the object so the GUID remained exactly the same.

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

They look pretty identical to me.

Barry,

Where do you check the GUID of the library parts? I just tried what happens if you open and "save as" a library part, and it did get a completely new GUID. I used the "open object by subtype" dialog to check the GUID of the parts:

Sorry for the delay in replying - -I've been away for a week.

I can't find a way to "Open object by subtype".
Is it a "special" menu command.

I can list objects by subtype but they don't show the GUID.

I was looking at the GUID with the "Select Subtype" button in the object script editor.

I just tested again and "saved as" with exactly the same name in a different folder of my library.
The object name is exactly the same and the GUID is exactly the same.
I re-loaded the library and there was no duplicate names or GUIDs reported.

I even just chamged the script of an object and "saved as" with a new name.
GUIDs are identical still.

Barry.

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 05:08:09 GMT

gkmethy wrote:
Barry wrote:

Now I just did a "save as" but did not modify the object so the GUID remained exactly the same.

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

They look pretty identical to me.

Barry,

Where do you check the GUID of the library parts? I just tried what happens if you open and "save as" a library part, and it did get a completely new GUID. I used the "open object by subtype" dialog to check the GUID of the parts:

OK I just found the "Open object by subtype" in the work environment.

Interestingly the objects have different GUIDs there.
{85C05AE9-D27A-43DA-A52F-8C91A8FCBD61}-{6FF8DD5C-4B85-46B1-9E61-C9EC8C3984E7}
{4E5DB834-4BCA-4664-85CD-323228FD5A43}-{6F91FBA6-5E0F-4B51-8D82-E4A776A75643}

But these are totally different to the GUID show in the script editor (which is the same for both objects).

{103E8D2C-8230-42E1-9597-46F84CCE28C0}-{1237716B-D289-456A-96DF-E82F767D5B0E}

Barry.

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 06:32:25 GMT

Just out of interest I thought I would try

xx=REQUEST ("Internal_id", "", id)

TEXT2 0.5, 0.5, id

to see what that gave me.

I just get "0" as the value for id.

Works fine in version 10 where it returns the old 4 digit Internal ID.
Doesn't work in 11 or 12 now that they have a 32 digit GUID.
Is there a Request we can use to get the library part GUID?

I know there is the GLOB_GUID but of course that is for the GUID of the placed intance of a particular library part.

Barry.

Re: GUID

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:00:33 GMT

Hello,

Global GLOB_INTGUID gives it without request,
but differs from the object dialog GUID

Re: GUID

vfrontiers — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:10:36 GMT

Can I just say...

YIKES!

Re: GUID

Rob — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:01:32 GMT

Just out of interest I thought I would try
xx=REQUEST ("Internal_id", "", id)
TEXT2 0.5, 0.5, id
to see what that gave me.
I just get "0" as the value for id.

Barry,
I believe that the internal ID is discontinued and is being kept in whole AC structure for compatibility reasons.

Regarding GUID - I think that it is a composite structure that is identifying not just an element ID itself but a parent directory (eg. Drawing Title subtype belongs to 'a family' of Drawing Symbols) and possibly other info too. So in other words a GUID of any placed instance will just show 'code hooks' to further (hidden to GDL) structures and therefore it will differ from the GUID shown in the Subtype Hierarchy dialog.

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:59:18 GMT

Rob wrote:
Just out of interest I thought I would try
xx=REQUEST ("Internal_id", "", id)
TEXT2 0.5, 0.5, id
to see what that gave me.
I just get "0" as the value for id.
Barry,
I believe that the internal ID is discontinued and is being kept in whole AC structure for compatibility reasons.

Regarding GUID - I think that it is a composite structure that is identifying not just an element ID itself but a parent directory (eg. Drawing Title subtype belongs to 'a family' of Drawing Symbols) and possibly other info too. So in other words a GUID of any placed instance will just show 'code hooks' to further (hidden to GDL) structures and therefore it will differ from the GUID shown in the Subtype Hierarchy dialog.

You are right Rob.
As Juha pointed out GLOB_INTGUID is the command to use.
GLOB_INTID was last used in version 10.

But this is the unique GUID for each instance of an object.
It isn't the GUID of the library part.
As far as I can see there is now way to enquire what the GUID of a library part is.

The problem is that the GUID that shows in the library part editor is not the same as the GUID that the library manager users to check for duplicates.
It is not a very important issue as it actually seems to be working fine - just showing the wrong value in the library part editor.

Just been playing as I wrote this and I see the difference now.
The library part editor is only showing the GUID of the subtype group and not the individual library part GUID.

The library manager (or open libray part by subtype) shows the actual library part GUID.

The first image here shows the open library part by subtype dialogue and it lists the individual objects.

Barry.

Re: GUID

Barry Kelly — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:01:15 GMT

This is the library part editor.
Note it only show the DOOR(WALL) subtype group and not the individual object.