topic Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec in Libraries & objects

Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objects

Ignacio Azpiazu — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:33:07 GMT

A Dutch AC10 Library has fallen into my hands. There are some very simple objects showing with considerable detail the 2D turning radii for cars, buses, trucks. For each vehicle type there are 2 versions, one tighter than the other one ('Auto 1' shown in blue with 'Auto 2' overlaid in gray).

I would figure the two types must be Dutch-code related in some way, linked to speed or traffic or public/private nature or whatever. Any idea what the two versions mean?

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:18:00 GMT

Given it's Dutch, is one for substance impaired drivers, the other not?':roll:'
Just a guess.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Dwight — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:07:15 GMT

I've seen a similar setting in the Arkansas pick-up truck turning radius object.

Dave: Your phone number is not connected - I am trying to call you.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Thomas Holm — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT

Dave wrote:
Given it's Dutch, is one for substance impaired drivers, the other not?':roll:'
Just a guess.

Just big and small turn radii, I'm afraid

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Barry Kelly — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:37:01 GMT

Ignacio wrote:
A Dutch AC10 Library has fallen into my hands. There are some very simple objects showing with considerable detail the 2D turning radii for cars, buses, trucks. For each vehicle type there are 2 versions, one tighter than the other one ('Auto 1' shown in blue with 'Auto 2' overlaid in gray).

I would figure the two types must be Dutch-code related in some way, linked to speed or traffic or public/private nature or whatever. Any idea what the two versions mean?

Is grey a forward turn and blue a reverse turn?
Barry.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Rakela Raul — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:47:32 GMT

i asked a traffic engineer and he didnt know!! he questiond why for one movement the arrow aiming @ two diff directions.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Srinivas — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:15:44 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Dave wrote:
Given it's Dutch, is one for substance impaired drivers, the other not?':roll:'
Just a guess.

Just big and small turn radii, I'm afraid

May be taking Speed limit and vertical alignment constraints.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:04:36 GMT

All these 2D elements are based on the German AC library
Maybe we should ask our German friends.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:43:12 GMT

Hello,

How long are the vehicles - seems to me that the gray vehicle is a bit longer than the blue one so possibly has a longer wheelbase and thus a bigger turning radius?

--
Regards, Juha

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:26:29 GMT

Juha wrote:
seems to me that the gray vehicle is a bit longer than the blue one so possibly has a longer wheelbase and thus a bigger turning radius?

The vehicle symbol dimensions are the same for both versions in all cases. The length of the straight path on the approach side changes too, and that is why the blue vehicle is a bit to the left of the gray one in the drawing.

Joeri: I'll look around for German explanations too. The folder includes section diagrams with the required dimensions for driveways, or perhaps parking spaces, of vehicles and vehicle combinations (a truck and a car, a bus and a car, etc.) including bicycles which did seem to me very Dutch (also there are no parameters or scripts which seemed to me very unGerman). For the sections again there are two versions for each, named 40 and 50 I think, which again makes me think it must be code-related in some way, perhaps an old code and a new code, or something like that.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Barry Kelly — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:34:27 GMT

Maybe the blue is assuming the vehicle is on full wheel lock straight away and hence is the tightest possible turn.
Where as the grey is a more gradual steer into the turn starting with straight wheels.

The grey car is further back giving it a chance to start with straight wheels and then begin turning.
So I think this is more likely the reason.

I still like to think the blue is turning in reverse as the front will swing out wider as shown, but the image of the blue care is not reversed.

Barry.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Judit Boros — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:20:43 GMT

The two versions mean the old and the new standard.
In the ArchiCAD version 8.1 was a change from the old standard to a new standard but the user asked for having both in the library.

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:06:35 GMT

juditboros wrote:
The two versions mean the old and the new standard.
In the ArchiCAD version 8.1 was a change from the old standard to a new standard but the user asked for having both in the library.

Wow thanks very much for replying.

What do you mean by 'the old and the new standard'? What standard, what years?

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Stuart Atkinson — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:47:48 GMT

Don't know if the image below helps explain the Dutch version but it is from the GS ArchiCAD V65 Library - Australian version.

Cheers
Stu

Re: Dutch lib '2D draaicirkels verkeer' turning radius objec

Ignacio Azpiazu — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:45:55 GMT

Judit Boros from Graphisoft did some research with the user who had originally requested the objects, I am pasting what she found out below. I tried to find some details about what those codes are, where they apply, etc., but not a lot of success on that yet.

----
I contacted our German partner to find out the most details about this issue.
There was a change in the DIN (German Standard) in year 2001.

The Bundesministerium für Verkehr, Bau- und Wohnungswesen - made an order in year 2001 that was introduced with number 287.
This standard overwrote the existing norms from 1995 to 2001.

This order contains the same drawings and Schleppkurven as ArchiCAD.

The reason of this change is not known.
I guess there are more components, for example speed etc.

That is all I could find out.

I really hope it heps you and also hope that in one day this will be part of the INT library as well.