topic Cadimage in Libraries & objects

Cadimage

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 23:44:19 GMT

Hi there,

we are getting some AC files from clients which have used cadimage librarys. Even so it is a pla file there are still librarys or macros missing. It is very annoying. This happened with different files from different clients. It would be silly to have to buy the addon to open the files!?
Can anybody shed some light on this thanks.

Carsten

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:46:22 GMT

I had that problem man,

at my work i have addons and sometimes i bring my work home, allways save file as archive and thats the only way to open that files on other comp without that addons. U will get mes.that some stuff is missing but u will be able to see drawings, but this is not perfect and smooth as it should be. So i was forced to install addons at home to

Thats the big problem with archicad and addons, they force u to buy addons and thats the shame. Without addons, archicad is very poor program . . . (poor door,windows, stair, 3d modeling, terrain etc)

If i wote for my best addon and most usefull addon, then it is ARCHIFORMA, Fabricio, job well done, i simply love it and i just cant work in archicad without it !

I think that GS should buy some addons and put it in AC as "must have to work in AC"

I just look this way:

u can always open in newest autocad, file from oldes autocad file (autocad 14 file can be easyely open in autocad 2008) ! Thats not the way with archicad. . . .

If GS just listen voice of their users and put that wishes in new archicad it would be THE BEST ARCHITECTURE SOFTWARE !

Conclusion:

Your problem is a little part of a big problem, and u dont have to buy addons, but it will make u creazy cos u dont use them, and u cant change files that u recive from your buisnies parners . . .etc

This projects that i work now in tv tower in monte negro and it cant be done without addons !

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:00:38 GMT

When i finish this one, i will post it somewhere here just to show what else can be done in archicad powered by some addons !

Thx Braza for your ArchiPIPE 1.3 AC11 !

Re: Cadimage

Fabrizio Diodati — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:30:54 GMT

First of all Thanks Neko for your kind words.

The missing objects trouble, referring to our add-ons, can happens for two reason:

1. the add-on uses an embedded library
2. the add-on uses a variable to call external macros

Embedded library concept was something that any add-on developer loves like no other thing: if the needed library can be embedded you don't have to care about its loading in ArchiCAD so you save your time avoding to write code to handle missing elements and you save your time in tech support because there is no possibility of users error.
Unfortunatelly, by default, if you have a PLA file and inside that file you inserted objects stored in embedded library it won't include those objects.

There is a workaround to avoid this thing (I mean from the developer point of view) but it's so boring that, after some versions, we gave up and from then we always avoided to use embedded library.
So, the first trouble, cannot appear anymore if the user utilizes the latest versions of our add-ons (of course I cannot say the same for other add-ons: it depends on the developer).

The second case occurs when you script an object that uses macro but, inside the script, you don't use the "standard" sintax:
For example, I have to call a macro named "Example"

Instead of use the command:

CALL "Example" PARAMETERS ...

I use the command:

Call name_macro PARAMETERS ...

where "name_macro" is a string parameter that can assume several values depending on the user settings.

This sintax is correct, it works fine, and it lets you do a lot of things.
But ArchiCAD doesn't include at all any macro called using this kind of sintax.
I always complained with GS about this issue but, at least till now, I haven't been able to get a fix of this trouble.

To workaround this trouble I always suggest the user to take with the project also the add-on library (you don't need to install the add-on but just to load the library).

Friendly
Fabrizio

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:15:49 GMT

To complete Fabrizio's explanation, this is what GS says.

Basic wrote:
When you call a macro, always use the call keyword and put the name of the macro between quotation marks (e.g., call "m_rail_wired"). Do not create macro calls where the macro name is a parameter to avoid missing macros from archive files. ArchiCAD saves the default macro only into the archive file.
(Workaround: call all parameter values as a macro after the end statement.)

The workaround works perfectly, and it applies to images too.

Re: Cadimage

Fabrizio Diodati — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:26:41 GMT

Hi Olivier,

yes I knew this statement by GS but:

(Workaround: call all parameter values as a macro after the end statement.)

If I could know in advance these values of course I wouldn't use this issue.
The trouble is I don't know in advance the names of these macros.
For example, the user can create his own custom newels and posts which can be used into ArchiStair.
I cannot know the names of these new objects so I cannot include them after the END statement.

There is another workaround that GS introduced that is what the custom components add-on does: any time the user create such kind of object the add-on automatically add its name to a specific macro but, in this case, these "added" objects are created by the add-on itself that can add the name.
If I provide the user with an add-on that can handle any kind of object by creating them using several methodologies (GDL scripting, save as from the 3D windows, etc.) my add-on cannot "intercept" the creation event so it cannot collect the name of the new created macro.

In any case we are working on this issue and we will solve it... sooner or later.

Friendly
Fabrizio

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:53:45 GMT

Fabrizio wrote:
If I could know in advance these values of course I wouldn't use this issue.
The trouble is I don't know in advance the names of these macros.

Hi Fabrizio,

OK, i understand this is "add-on" specific problem. I figured you talked for objects in general.
Sorry for misunderstanding you. Good luck to solve this.

Re: Cadimage

Fabrizio Diodati — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:00:27 GMT

No trouble at all, Olivier!

You kind suggestion and advice will always be welcome.

Friendly
Fabrizio

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 00:16:38 GMT

thanks guys for the feedback. So in reality cadimage sells an addon which is for inhouse use only. I guess you won't find this info on their website.

Graphisoft really needs to address this problem especially with revit breathing down their neck.

By the way we can open a pla file with cadimage librarys but you wont be able to see anything in 3d at all, not that this would be of any help anyway.

Cheers

Re: Cadimage

__archiben — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 04:15:08 GMT

Carstene wrote:
thanks guys for the feedback. So in reality cadimage sells an addon which is for inhouse use only. I guess you won't find this info on their website.

it's not really cadimage's problem - the fault really lies with the way GS handles the archiving process. there are (as described) some tedious ways around it.

suggestion: go to cadimagetools.com and register. you will be able to download demo versions of their add-on type tools. upon installation you will have their complete libraries for use with your colleague's projects.

bear in mind that the add-on functionality (any accessory association) won't work if you change things around. you should also check out your support contract with graphisoft australia. some cadimage tools are included with the contract so you could find that you already 'own' them!

~/archiben

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:51:10 GMT

archiben,

thanks for your insight. I do disagree so that it is GS problem. If someone developes a plug in, it is up to them to make sure it works with the pla feature of AC. The pla feature has been around before developing the cadimage tool library.
The point of the pla feature is to be able to open the project without having to have any additional plug ins, librarys etc.
It is a hassle to download stuff all the time just to make things work.

cadimage could make the tool non editable for the pla if they are afraid people will use them free after opening an archive.

Saying this I might have access to the cadimage librarys as a gold member, I better check on this!

cheers

Re: Cadimage

Dwight — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:38:24 GMT

Carstene wrote:
it is up to them to make sure it works with the pla feature of AC. The pla feature has been around before developing the cadimage tool library.

With all due respect, I can attest that the PLA function of Archicad frequently overlooks macro elements archiving even official Archicad library elements. So our add-on building colleagues face what might be an insurmountable challenge in coping with this application flaw.

Re: Cadimage

Rob — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:46:11 GMT

I have to say that whole strategy and cooperation between GS and CI is not working... apparently. However, I would be blaming both sides equally... it's not good for either party after all.

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:43:48 GMT

Dwight wrote:
With all due respect, I can attest that the PLA function of Archicad frequently overlooks macro elements archiving even official Archicad library elements. So our add-on building colleagues face what might be an insurmountable challenge in coping with this application flaw.

I agree. I'm using archive files from time to time. I've never had one .PLA document working properly. Every AC version I remember (started with AC6.0) issues missing macro's or textures, even with the correct save options enabled.
I don't use any add-on, only AC libraries (INT and localized)...

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:56:52 GMT

Many of the Cadimage Tools require a series of Macros that do not get included when you save a PLA.

Any user can register with Cadimage Tools (www.cadimagetools.com) and download the Tools they require without purchasing the Tool. This will ensure you have no missing library parts, however you will not be able to use the tool itself until you either register a 30 day demo or purchase the Tool.

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:09:31 GMT

The reason PLAs are often missing macros is that some library parts call macros using a user selected (or entered) parameter value. ArchiCAD can only include macros that are hard coded in the scripts and not ones using variable parameter names. I don't know what the obstacles are to fixing this limitation, but it has been around a long time.

Re: Cadimage

Ignacio Azpiazu — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:00:38 GMT

I think the annual release idea pretty much kills the whole third-party add-on idea. Expenses were significant enough and updates enough of a headache on an 18-month basis, not to mention the export/sharing problems/impossibility. I ended up not really using the add-ons I did purchase.

I think Graphisoft should just buy the products form Cigraph and Cadimage and etc. that have proven to be good products, and make them available as free goodies, and contract the developers for simultaneous development with each AC release.

Re: Cadimage

Rob — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:50:55 GMT

I think the annual release idea pretty much kills the whole third-party add-on idea.

I agree, this puts a lot of pressure on 3rd party developers as well so add-ons are more prone to be buggy. I have given up on add-ons completely.. can not be bothered anymore.

Re: Cadimage

Rex Maximilian — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:24:15 GMT

NeckoFromSarajevo wrote:
Without addons, archicad is very poor program . . . (poor door,windows, stair, 3d modeling, terrain etc)

That's your opinion. I think it's way off base though.

I can think of a lot of things I wish were perfect in this world. But nothing's perfect. Frankly, I use two adds ons religiously, CIT Door&WindowBuilder and the CIT Accessories Tools. But without them, I could still do my work using ArchiCAD's default tools.

Your TV tower's very nice, but it can still be done with ArchiCAD's tools. With as little number of steps? Probably not, which is why add-ons are great, but not the end all, be all tool for completing projects, nor defining a product.

Re: Cadimage

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:58:39 GMT

Rex wrote:
NeckoFromSarajevo wrote:
Without addons, archicad is very poor program . . . (poor door,windows, stair, 3d modeling, terrain etc)
That's your opinion. I think it's way off base though.

I can think of a lot of things I wish were perfect in this world. But nothing's perfect. Frankly, I use two adds ons religiously, CIT Door&WindowBuilder and the CIT Accessories Tools. But without them, I could still do my work using ArchiCAD's default tools.

Your TV tower's very nice, but it can still be done with ArchiCAD's tools. With as little number of steps? Probably not, which is why add-ons are great, but not the end all, be all tool for completing projects, nor defining a product.

When i read comments like yours i just say :

U can use your head to break wall i will use dynamite

I know that this tower is not something from everyday work , and probably many architect will never do job like this, but when it hits u, u just want to have software in which u can accomplish this.
Money is in the game, u have deadlines, and u cant spent 3 months creating just 3d model or even not to create it.

So, when i say archicad is poor, i want it to be better. I love archicad, and im using it everyday, i know what is missing and i know what is good in ac.

No hard feelings,
Respect from
Sarajevo, BiH