topic Re: Missing lines in Libraries & objects

Missing lines

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2023 10:46:55 GMT

Apologies if this has been covered - i think i remember reading something about it but can't find the thread.

I'm having some problems with AC9 windows displaying correctly in AC10. All the lines dividing the sash from the frame, in elevation, are missing. Any body know why? How can I fix this? Should I load the AC10 library and replace all my windows?

(P.S - I've tried it with different styles of window, and the same thing happens.)

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:57:42 GMT

This is the result of an (apparently) unforeseen problem created by an improvement in AC10. It seems that now all coplanar faces of the same material will clean up any shared edges in 3D views.

While this is great news for for the basic building elements (particularly roofs) it is a significant problem for library parts which were written with the assumption that this would not happen. Thus two doors or window sash (or other things) which meet with no gap between them are getting the lines removed.

This is a serious problem which needs immediate attention since the workarounds are not great. The most immediate fix (on the end user side) is to draw the lines in 2D. On double doors some have had success by opening them slightly in 3D, but this only works on the outswing side.

The real fix is up to GS. Revising all the affected library parts is not realistic. There are too many of them, many of which are very complex, and the fix requires either an arbitrary patch (adding lines in 3D or such) or getting extremely fussy in modeling the slight gaps between doors, and sash and jambs etc.

The simplest fix (I assume) would be to exempt library parts from this clean up process. GDL has always included the ability to show or hide edges with fine control within the script, so the automatic clean up is of no added value.

I admit that I have been remiss and have not contacted anyone at Graphisoft about this yet myself, but I assume that they are aware of it. Does anyone know if this problem is being addressed?

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:31:16 GMT

Thanks for the explanation Matthew - as it sounds like it's material related, I've changed my sash matrial to be different from my frame material, and it seems to have fixed it.

For now.

Re: Missing lines

Aussie John — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 23:04:18 GMT

Surfaces with different materials will always show a line. This is true for drawn elements.

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:04:24 GMT

Tom wrote:
Thanks for the explanation Matthew - as it sounds like it's material related, I've changed my sash matrial to be different from my frame material, and it seems to have fixed it.

For now.

Yes, whenever you can change the materials that's another workaround. Unfortunately it doesn't work for the double doors

Re: Missing lines

Rod Jurich — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:07:10 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Tom wrote:
Thanks for the explanation Matthew - as it sounds like it's material related, I've changed my sash matrial to be different from my frame material, and it seems to have fixed it.

For now.
Yes, whenever you can change the materials that's another workaround. Unfortunately it doesn't work for the double doors

Haven't used GS default doors for some time now. Macro that calls our doors had simple script added to show line in 3D which moved with leaf when opened. Scripting to show a small gap made elevations look odd with 2 lines drawn closely together. Made it look as if a thicker pen was selected.
A result IMO, where computer programers and not practioners make decisions.

Re: Missing lines

Aussie John — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:06:06 GMT

I dont know why but my doors ( which I have scripted) seem to be working ok - even double doors with same material

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:00:23 GMT

Pairs of doors I have scripted also show the line.
Also, I have noticed the AC 10 pair of windows (forget what it's called)
though the two sash lay in a plane do show the joint line.
Maybe the problem is not with co-planer surfaces but
something in the GDL script of this door object.
Peter Devlin

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:14:05 GMT

Update.

Just discovered from my reseller, that the offical GS fix for this is to open the library part and do this:

- Locate the script for the bit that's not working correctly (in my case, the frame and sash of the window)

- Duplicate it

- Add MODEL WIRE at the start of the original bit of script

- Add MODEL SURFACE at the start of the duplicated bit

- Save (As new part!)

That seems to work. Not really a smooth upgrade solution though.

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:04:40 GMT

Hello Tom,
Thank you for the update.
This is the weirdest "fix" I have ever heard of.
Did your reseller or GS give any explanation of
what error in the script of this object caused
the problem ?
Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:38:51 GMT

Yeah, it is pretty strange.

But no, he didn't mention any reason as too why...

It's not an object specific problem though, he said that was the recommended GS fix for all objects which have the same display issues.

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:15:38 GMT

Hello Tom,
Thanks for posting back.
No explanation. This is frustrating.
Do the elements of the "fixed" window object
appear solid in section ?
Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:19:02 GMT

Hi Peter,

Yeah, the section seems to be fine. I've attached my edited part if you're interested.

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:13:04 GMT

Hello Tom,
Thank you very much for the library part.
I will see what I can learn about the missing line issue.
Peter Devlin

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:16:34 GMT

Hello Tom,
I opened your RWA_Sliding Sash 1 in the lib part editing environment
and commented out the model wire command and the repeat
macro calls with the model surface command.
I un-fixed it to try to reproduce the missing lines.
After doing this I could not get the joint line between the upper sash
and the window frame to disappear.

This object has some strange behavior.
In the lib part editor the 3D view shows the material for the
the frame and sash the same (as I had set them in the parameters)
In the 3D preview they show as the same.
In the 3D window the frame is the material I set but the sash material
is what appears to be "Wood Pine" even though the sash material
is set to " Paint-Whitewash".

In the 3D window and in the section/elevation window
the lines that are missing in your .jpg are present.
Also, the window you show in your .jpg image
is different than the window object RWA_Sliding Sash 1.
(see attached image)
The window in your .jpg image has coped tails on the
upper sash side frame members.

Anyway, I can't study the missing line issue because
I can't reproduce it on my machine.
Peter Devlin

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:25:01 GMT

Curiouser and curiouser...

I deleted my changes to the part, and it still behaved like the edited part instead of the original Sliding Sash 1.

The image shows the 4 variations of the window:
- the AC10 part (different name but basically the same part)
- the AC9 'W Sliding Sash 1' part
- my edited 'RWA Sliding Sash 1' part
- my re-edited 'RWA Sliding Sash1b' part, with the MODEL WIRE and MODEL SURFACE and duplicate lines of code removed.

Sorry - the window in my orginal post is different, it's the Edwardian Sash window (woops) but they behave the same.

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:11:30 GMT

Hello Tom,
From your image, the only part that has missing lines
is an AC 9 part. Is this part inserted in a wall in
an AC 10 project ?
I wonder if a "virgin" W Sliding Sash 1 is edited with a
completely inconsequential change like
addx 1
del 1
and then saved will the window suddenly show the missing lines.
Peter Devlin

Re: Missing lines

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:03:29 GMT

Hi Peter,

Yip, the parts in the image are inserted in AC10. The part was edited in AC10 also. I'll try adding some nothing code as you suggest and see what happens.

Re: Missing lines

TomWaltz — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:01:21 GMT

Found this in the .plist file.... thought it was interesting...

Re: Missing lines

__archiben — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:04:55 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
... thought it was interesting...

very. now they need to break down the 'GDL' into high-level subtype-based preferences . . .

~/archiben