topic Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted! in Libraries & objects

new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

aahatimo — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:17:37 GMT

the long awaited us library is here:
http://tr.graphisoftus.com/
has anyone tried it out yet? i will wait, like directed, until i have a new project. btw, how would one work on pre-se projects, after it is installed, just not load it?

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:51:33 GMT

As this is a completely new library, based on what is stated in the Special Edition Manual, it would appear that transferring window/door settings from one project to another is impossible since you can't use both libraries.

We have completely setup standards for doors/windows. Any suggestions on how to get the U.S. Library standards into the Special Edition Standards without having to redo every door and window type we use.

Does loading the new template transfer existing working environments, or does all that have to be reset/redone also.

Thanks,

grant

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 04:33:30 GMT

aahatimo wrote:
btw, how would one work on pre-se projects, after it is installed, just not load it?

Yes. Just continue with the libraries as currently loaded in your projects.

Now, if you loaded the FOLDER for the archicad libraries instead of the PLA, then if you place this (and other libraries) in the library folder, they will all be loaded and you'll have a mess. If you see something strange happening (lots of messages at library load time at start-up), just fix things in Library Manager, or your file system, or both.

Karl

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 04:47:13 GMT

NOELDESIGNS wrote:
Does loading the new template transfer existing working environments, or does all that have to be reset/redone also.

Work environments are independent of PLN files or libraries, so no change is required there. HOWEVER, a variety of preferences are by file, not by environment - and so if you start a new project with the new US Startup Template, the preferences will likely not match your own. Generally, I would think that only new users would start out with the US Startup Template, as existing users would have their own template(s) from prior projects.

[Anyone who doesn't have a template customized for their workflow is well-advised to work on one, perhaps based on the US Startup Template, download one (such as Rex Maximillion's), buy one [such as Eric Batte's - but I don't know that it has been updated for the SE library yet], or hire someone (like Link) to help them make one. There is no one-size fits all template - depends on your practice, type of work performed, etc.]

I think we'll hear more about what is in the new library when GS makes the official announcement ... perhaps on Tuesday. 😉

Karl

PS Grant, you probably know this, but Work Environments are 'fragile' unless saved. Each category in the work environment turns to 'custom' if it is modified. All such changes will be lost forever if another work environment is activated without have saved or redefined those 'custom' changes. Further, once each scheme is redefined, the entire work environment consisting of all of those schemes should be exported somewhere and backed up (or transferred to your other computers, where it can be imported). Following these steps avoids any concern about loss of work environment. 😉

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:36:33 GMT

Karl, thanks for the feedback. The other part of my question was regarding existing doors/windows.

As I have defined most of the doors/windows in multiple projects, if I now use the Special Edition libraries, the doors/windows will not be setup as currently used. As both libraries can't be loaded at the same time, do you have any ideas of how to get the settings for doors and windows from the US libraries to the Special Edition libraries.

I have considered simply copying a wall that has an existing door and/or window from a current plan, but don't know what types of problems that will occur. I assume if I copy from a PLN that uses the US library into a PLN that uses the new Special Edition library that the door/ window will not show up since the correct library will not be loaded.

I like the new Special Edition library, but don't want to have to recreate all the doors/windows that are setup as our standard.

Grant

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:19:09 GMT

Hi Grant,

Yeah, I ignored that part of your question because I don't know the answer.

IF the new SE library had used unique names for the objects and macros, then we could have used both libraries at the same time, and used parameter transfer to transfer common settings from old parts to new ... and then finished adjusting the new parameters.

(The windows/doors have lots of new parameters, the wall type parameter being one that would definitely make old projects look different. The 'stud wall' type - not the default - seems to match what we have now most closely, but the other wall types allow for generation of much improved graphics depending on the wall construction.)

I had what I thought was a brilliant idea - opening two copies of ArchiCAD so that I could eyedrop parameters from one and syringe them into the other, but alas that does not work as the eyedropper does not place its information on the clipboard. Oh well. Sure would be a handy feature, though, regardless of this library issue!

So, I can't think of any convenient way to re-use existing standards with this new library...

Karl

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:05:09 GMT

Karl wrote:
I had what I thought was a brilliant idea - opening two copies of ArchiCAD so that I could eyedrop parameters from one and syringe them into the other, but alas that does not work as the eyedropper does not place its information on the clipboard.

Karl, can you copy-paste the element you want attributes from from one file to the other file, and then transfer the settings with the eyedropper and syringe?
That should work.

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:21:46 GMT

Karl, thanks for your reply. While I have tested and like the new Special Edition libraries, I think someone at GS should have found a way to make the two libraries(old and new) compatible.

I understand the logic of using the new libraries, but to say the least, the process is time consuming and cumbersome to recreate the variety of doors and windows used in the old libraries to the new libraries.

I would have thought someone at GS would have considered this and had a solution before bringing out the libraries. I don't know how difficult it would be, but perhaps GS can consider a quickie conversion program that takes all the parameters(doors/windows) from the US library to the Special Edition library.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Much appreciated.

Grant

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:34:16 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
Karl, can you copy-paste the element you want attributes from from one file to the other file, and then transfer the settings with the eyedropper and syringe?
That should work.

This cannot work for library parts. (For building elements, it is fine.)

For a D1 door, for example, if you copy the wall/door to the other file ... the D1 door now references the loaded D1 library part in that other file ... which is the new library.

But, there is something more mysterious going on ... as within a single new file using the new SE library, I cannot use parameter transfer to copy params from one door to another within the object settings dialog. I'll report my findings to GS...

Karl

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:38:42 GMT

I see what you mean.
Thinking of that, I just recently had a similar problem of not being able to transfer parameters. I modified a Window Marker, saved under a new name and wanted all my Windows to use the new one. I had to save it under a new name because the original was included in the ArchiCAD.dll file so there is no way of overwriting that. Parameter Transfer cannot be used on this, although the Marker object is GDL just as a Window. Have to do it manually

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

SeaGeoff — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:27:16 GMT

Having just loaded the new library and gotten no further than the first instance of a single hung window, I must say I'm disappointed at both the quality control and features delivered by this update.

This window, W Single Hung 1, has interface bugs on many of the tabs in the settings section of it's settings dialog box (errant scroll bar, text doesn't fit the boxes, etc.) Small but unbelievable that they were let out.

More frustrating are the blatantly poor design choices. Still there is no way to assign a different material to the inside and outside of a window. Has no one at Graphisoft ever seen a wood window painted differently on each side? Or a wood window clad in metal? And even though fills are finally added to plan view, you can't use a wood grain at the sash and jamb since the sill (which should be beyond) is filled the same as these cut elements.

Ugh, still forced to use a third party product to produce a good model of a typical wood window of which there must be millions in America. If this is the way the rest of the SE rates, and considering the pain of rolling out a new library, forget it!

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:58:42 GMT

Geogg, in your previous email you mentioned you still use a third party product for doors/windows.

Which product are you using?

Thanks,

Grant

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:30:07 GMT

Geoff wrote:
Having just loaded the new library and gotten no further than the first instance of a single hung window, I must say I'm disappointed at both the quality control and features delivered by this update.

Speaking only of the User Interface, if this is ALL that GS can offer actually, i am very anxious for the future.
In one word, ugly!

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

TomWaltz — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 22:34:29 GMT

Our office uses the SmartParts Door & Window kit.

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

SeaGeoff — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 01:32:58 GMT

NOELDESIGNS wrote:
Which product are you using?

Cadimage (formerly Theometric) Door and Window Builder.
http://www.cadimagetools.com/home.php?page=products

It can do most anything, if you have the time and patience, but I'm reluctant to suggest it for our office where most new hires have never even heard of ArchiCAD. And it's not without it's own quirks.

I'm more than willing to forego some of the fancy features available in a product like DWB. And the interface doesn't bother me. Quite straightforward actually. But GS must at least cover the basics.

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:45:12 GMT

I noticed that Graphisoft has updated the MSA library as part of the Special Edition update. They have now incorporated it into the unbrella of the ArchiCad 9 Library folder, instead of the seperate MSA folder. Our office detail library is based on the MSA detailer template.

I do not see the title bar object that worked hand in hand with the detailer template. The detailer template has some very good improvements, but why did they not add the title bar to this edition?

I would prefer to have the option of using the title bar object or using title types in plotmaker. But if you can not use an old library with the title bar object, we are forced to use plotmaker title types.

Please update and add this object back to the ArchiCad Library.

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:11:39 GMT

Any news from GS whether or not the new US Special Library is going to be fixed to work correctly, and also to address the issues raised in this forum.

Thanks,

Grant

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:41:55 GMT

mkopecky wrote:
I do not see the title bar object that worked hand in hand with the detailer template. The detailer template has some very good improvements, but why did they not add the title bar to this edition?

Please review the completely new User's Guide, particularly page 10:

"The white space at the bottom is reserved for the detail title. The
preferable method of titling in ArchiCAD 9 is to use automatic titling
in PlotMaker. This is not always feasible, or you may wish to provide
your own title in ArchiCAD for other reasons such as quick check
prints. The “Drawing Block Title_NCS” library part can be used to
title a drawing within ArchiCAD itself."

This title part is included in the old MSA-style templates, but can otherwise be easily added. The title line is hot-stretchable.

Also see the last appendix concerning using old MSA details along with the revised DET parts.

An alternative to that Appendix for people who need bug-fixed detailer parts in current projects and so cannot load the SE library is to unpack the SE library and isolate the Detailer folder and load that into existing projects that use the standard AC 9 library. Since all part names begin with DET, there should be no conflicts in doing this.

Again: I urge anyone who wants to use the detailer parts to read the all-new User's Guide.

Please post questions and problems in this forum, ideally in a new thread.

Thanks,
Karl

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

TomWaltz — Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:56:14 GMT

I was finally starting to give this new library the once over. For a USA library, I'm really surprised at how many structural objects are sized in millimeters instead of inches.

I opened up the "Web Beam Curved" object, just out of curiosity to see the code.... since when is GS using what looks like German to me?

xLaenge             = A !PARAM X-Dimension
yQuerschnittsbreite = B !PARAM Y-Dimension
zQuerschnittshoehe  = C !PARAM Querschnittshohe
dMaterial           = D !PARAM Materialstarke [mm]
zAufsetzhoehe1      = E !PARAM Auflagehohe 1
zAufsetzhoehe2      = F !PARAM Auflagehohe 2
zScheitelhoehe      = G !PARAM Scheitelhohe
dLoch               = H !PARAM Loch-Durchmesser (0 = keine L.)
dAbstand            = I !PARAM Ungefahrer Loch-Abstand
dToleranz           = J !PARAM Toleranz (kleiner = runder)
bFusspunktstrich    = K !PARAM Grundriss mit FuAzpunktstrichss
nLinientyp          = gs_line_type !PARAM Linientyp fALr Grundriss

Re: new ac 9 (us only) special edition library is posted!

Ransom Ratcliff — Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:43:25 GMT

Geoff wrote:
Having just loaded the new library and gotten no further than the first instance of a single hung window, I must say I'm disappointed at both the quality control and features delivered by this update.

This window, W Single Hung 1, has interface bugs on many of the tabs in the settings section of it's settings dialog box (errant scroll bar, text doesn't fit the boxes, etc.) Small but unbelievable that they were let out.

More frustrating are the blatantly poor design choices. Still there is no way to assign a different material to the inside and outside of a window. Has no one at Graphisoft ever seen a wood window painted differently on each side? Or a wood window clad in metal? And even though fills are finally added to plan view, you can't use a wood grain at the sash and jamb since the sill (which should be beyond) is filled the same as these cut elements.

Ugh, still forced to use a third party product to produce a good model of a typical wood window of which there must be millions in America. If this is the way the rest of the SE rates, and considering the pain of rolling out a new library, forget it!

Geoff,
GS should have been able to push these windows a lot further but they have made more progress in this one release than they have in the last five US libraries they have released.
Speaking now just about the order in which steps were made to make a good wood window, it was necessary to get the geometry right for the first time. Here, GS is getting a lot closer than ever before.
Second, usability to produce construction drawings at 1/4" scale for plan, section, and elevation was pursued over enlarged details or even basic rendering.

In this context, it was decided that having different materials for inside and outside would add much more complexity at a time when US window geometry was hard enough to comprehend. Since the materials would not affect the narrow scope of these first baby steps, it was postponed. At least the default material is white instead of pine. Believe it or not, this was a minor victory that evidently could not be made in earlier releases of ArchiCAD.

The plan fill setting was intended to allow sills to have a masking (Front to Back) capability in places where they project over cabinetry, etc. That is why they default to "Empty Fill" index 85. A separate wood grain fill for the jambs would be more important at detail scale, but this again, was beyond what could be accomplished before the release date.

As for the size of the text fields in the UI, this is almost unforgivable. There is plenty of space for larger fields and it is just good GDL practice to err on the larger side so different system fonts will work. (I wonder if the developers are working in imperial units when they are programming GDL for the US market. I doubt it, and it shows.)

I wish they could have gone further so that rendering and larger scale details would benefit. But in releasing this library, (prematurely IMHO) they are using the ArchiCAD community as free beta testers. Still, for those of us who use the "ArchiCAD Library 9.pla" it represents an improvement.

I have always been called an "early adopter", but I like it much better than any previous ArchiCAD Library. As we push GS with constructive criticism, lets mention some of the things that they are doing right.

Cheers,

Ransom