topic Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object. in Libraries & objects

'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:06:55 GMT

I have a particular object that I like to use that was developed by an employee at a company (for which the object was designed). All of the scripts are greyed out not allowing me to see them and adjust them.

I contacted the author of the object and since he built the object for and at work, company policy does not allow him to 'unlock' the code or give it to me. However, he said that "some of the guys on Archi-Talk could probably tell me how to unlock the scripts."

Who might that be? He never said I COULDN'T see the code, he just said that he is not allowed to give / show it to me. Who here can tell me how to unlock the scripts on this object so that I can make some minor adjustments (improvements) and make my life a lot easier?

There has to be someone! Please help me because making these small adjustments will save me hours of work through EACH project. Thanks.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

James Murray — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:30:34 GMT

This is the IMHO definitive thread on this issue.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:51:50 GMT

I don't know hoe that thread never came up in my searches. wrong words I guess?

Thank you for the link. Insightful reading, but not helpful to me. I can understand the pros and cons, but if I 'permission' then how do I access the code?

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

James Murray — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:32:56 GMT

OK, search Scripts AND hidden AND code AND prevent

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:59:11 GMT

James

Scripts AND hidden AND code AND prevent

that search didn't enligthen me!

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Ignacio Azpiazu — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:25:14 GMT

I don't know if there is a way of 'unlocking', but what I once did was open the object file in a text editor, copy-paste the scripts into a new object, and edit them there.

[You have to create the parameters and manually copy them from the original, which is a hassle. And that part did not have hidden parameters such as you would have in an object with editable hotspots, which might complicate things a bit.]

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:04:09 GMT

I think it is not possible to unlock hidden GDL Scripts because that's the whole idea: not making it possible for others to use the code (to prevent intellectual property).
That you can still see the code is lucky for you, not so lucky for the developer.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:10:19 GMT

Well I opened the code in a text editor, copied all of the scripts into a new object and re-created all of the parameters.

It worked. Its a shame that I had to spend an hour to do that to make a very small change to the thing. In essance then, the locking of the object really only stopped me until I decided to take the time to do it. Is the locking really worth the extra hour of 'hidden' stuff? I doubt it.

Besides - I'm not out to 'steal' the code, I just want to make a very small change and try to make the object even better.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

TomWaltz — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:12:09 GMT

Try that argument with Microsoft.... they probably have lawyers cruising the roads waiting for calls like that....

If a company pays an employee to develop something, it's up to the company whether they want to allow use of that something by someone else. If they do not, then any choice by someone else to pirate that something also carries the work required to do so.

Why should another company (possibly a competitor) provide you with useful objects without renumeration?

I've posted a few objects for open use here, usually pretty simple ones, both to encourage discussion and to help out other users, but the really high-end stuff our company does is never posted for open use. By releasing those objects, they are open for anyone to use and experiment with. If I were to release anything that was locked to protect my company's investments, and found out people were trying to hack it, that would be the last object I ever posted.

You are saying that you want to make something better for your own use, but it sounds as though you had no right to have it in the first place.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 22:42:57 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:

I've posted a few objects for open use here, usually pretty simple ones, both to encourage discussion and to help out other users, but the really high-end stuff our company does is never posted for open use. By releasing those objects, they are open for anyone to use and experiment with. If I were to release anything that was locked to protect my company's investments, and found out people were trying to hack it, that would be the last object I ever posted.

You are saying that you want to make something better for your own use, but it sounds as though you had no right to have it in the first place.

Tom,
It sounds like you probably shouldn't post any of your company's "locked" objects anyway. If someone sees a good GDL technique they're likely to try and explore it...its just human nature.

I think Sirduncan makes a good point but I can understand the argument from opposite points of view as well. I can think of numerous times through the years when I've needed to tweak an object but couldn't because it was locked.

Okay, so maybe Sirduncan didn't purchase the object but if he did a similar argument always comes up about locked scripts

Bottonline, If you purchase an object or suite of objects for your use but can't tweak it to meet your internal standards because it is locked...well, you're just kinda' screwed. Objects tend to be designed to meet very generic standards so they apply to the broadest of customer base.

GDL developers can't design their scripts to adequately respond to everyones "specific" needs. For the most part Objects for sale should always be open for the customer's unique tweaking needs. I don't personally purchase many objects...I tend to script all my own...If I did purchase any , however, I would always think twice before spending money on objects with locked scripts.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Frank Beister — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:17:35 GMT

If you purchase an object or suite of objects for your use but can't tweak it to meet your internal standards because it is locked...well, you're just kinda' screwed.

I'm shure that you are not using Windows, because you prefer Linux, wich comes with the complete source. 😉

Have you contacted the author, when an object didn't fit to your needs? Sometimes these guys are very helpful.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:38:20 GMT

F. wrote:
If you purchase an object or suite of objects for your use but can't tweak it to meet your internal standards because it is locked...well, you're just kinda' screwed.
I'm shure that you are not using Windows, because you prefer Linux, wich comes with the complete source. 😉

Have you contacted the author, when an object didn't fit to your needs? Sometimes these guys are very helpful.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "prefer linux" comment...but i am fairly certain I use "Windows"

Yes, contacting the author is always an option and I am sure most would be very helpful. However, tweaking an object is usually a case of "I need it now" and it would be silly to think that any developer could "jump" immediately to your needs. tweaking also might need to evolve more over time - I just wouldn't make sense to contact the developer everytime you needed a change...Possible solution?...I guess I would rather pay more initially for an object if its scripts were open.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Frank Beister — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 06:30:48 GMT

I started a platform for free objects, which bases on the system to improve existing objects. But the objects have to be given to open source.

But you have to respect, that the programmer wants to sell its object "as it is". Often objects contain more code and good code for a later expansion by the AUTHOR, and of course for a higher price to sell or the possibility to sell again an update.
You don't want to do the whole work for your object, you want to use the work someone else has done. I understand, but if an author does not want this, you should respect. If you have to do changes every few days, you should use/write another, better fitting object.

You didn't understand the linux-hint: You wouldn't ask MS to give you the windows-source, isn't it? And what's about your software in your architectural plans? What would you say, if someone modifies your plans and builts this modified building for less work than you have done?

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

TomWaltz — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:14:37 GMT

It sounds like you probably shouldn't post any of your company's "locked" objects anyway. If someone sees a good GDL technique they're likely to try and explore it...its just human nature.

That was kind of my point.

By posting anything in a public place, or giving someone an object, the author controls the access that person has. Most objects are open, and freely modifiable and can be great learning tools.

Others are locked, for whatever reason the author sees fit. For example, all the objects that are part of the CadImage tools are locked. They are in the business of selling add-ons, and I respect that. Of course, I curious as can be HOW they do some of the amazing things they do, but part of my licensing agreement says I cannot reverse engineer their product.

The Archicad/GDL is a kind of pseudo-open source situation, where the author really has the option of sharing their code or not. If they choose not, then it should be respected.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:22:44 GMT

Of course there is unlimited argument on both sides, (see many earlier threads). Don't yall worry though - I contacted the author, and he told me that while he is obligated to keep the object locked by his company, he said that if I could figure it out on these boards, he didn't mind. So I did. Besides, it will maintain its full value as is, I'll just be adding an additional feature to make it better.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Vitruvius — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:23:28 GMT

I'm not sure why locking the GDL is an issue. It's the author's privilege to protect their copyright (and that's what it is!!).

I'm quite happy to let a lot of stuff walk out the door, but certain GDL stuff has been created at significant expense with the express intention of getting a leg up on the competition (whether they're using ArchiCAD or something else). So, being proprietary about something unique that cost a few thousand to develop makes a lot of sense to me.

And anyway, ultimately all the clever stuff ends up in the public domain so it's only ever a running advantage.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:23:25 GMT

Tom Waltz mentioned that CadImage tools etc are 'locked'. My experience is that if you have an issue with any of their products they will usually be more than helpful. For example, we had a problem with Door Window Builder in that the timber cills do not conform to UK practice. After two or three days he supplied us with a modified version which met our requirements. In addition he sent the necessary files with scripts unlocked, and with his agrement (and assistance), I have been adding some additional fatures to the product. (He intends to add some of the features that I have aimplemented)

Most commercial suppliers of GDL products (take Cigraph for example) are keen to get feedback and suggestions, and if you are REALLY desperate, they are likely to want to help you - they may stand to benefit from your suggestions!

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

TomWaltz — Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:45:26 GMT

Tom Waltz mentioned that CadImage tools etc are 'locked'.

I'm sorry if that sounded negative.

I did not mean anything against CadImage. They have definitely been very responsive to any feedback. I was just using them as an example of someone who might have a reason to lock their scripts.

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:24:37 GMT

I understand locking scripts.. "intelectual property.. bla, bla... "
but why putting those defined materials in it???
if it worked in 8.0 and 8.1, it doesnt in 9.0 and it`s lightworks.
u cannot define in a script reflectancy, for example...

i wanted to put some of those objects in a project, but I had to give up on them:
they looked like time traveling aliens from the distant past (AC7.0; AC8.0)

Re: 'Unlocking' scripts in an object.

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:37:25 GMT

dear Adi i recommend to use Black Turtle Beta from Abvent - to automatically unlock gdl objects