topic Re: Ceiling Grid in Libraries & objects

Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:33:39 GMT

Any new objects or api's out there that allow for ceilig grid and light fixture insertion?

Re: Ceiling Grid

__archiben — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:37:36 GMT

have you tried the ones built into archiCAD? Extras>Accessories...

~/archiben

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:54:29 GMT

Ben -
We in the US have a flat ceilling tool not a grid system under Accessories for AC9.

A friend ask me to post the following for him -
The opinions expressed are not mine.
===============================
I have been trying to find a decent lay-in ceiling grid (gsm)utility to use for the lay-in ceilings on my commercial jobs. I need something that looks true in 3D views and sections and can be cut for light fixtures, etc.

I have purchased a couple from ObjectsOnline that really don't do a very good job. The main problem is that they don't handle irregular areas at all, and by the time you try to use a number of individual pieces and match up grids its a real headache. Listed below are the objects I have tried.

1. Ceiling Grid System ArchiTREK
(This one Actually tells you use the grid and use a slab for the panels so you can cut holes for fixtures.) The following are auxiliary item that are provided by ArchiTREK to help with fixtures-
-Downlight2, Recessed
-Light Panel for Ceiling Grid

2. Tileworks (SO-FloorTiles.gsm ArchiGDL
(This one actually seems to work the best, grids looks real, but again holes are a problem)

3. Ceiling object from ArchiCAD library Using a 2x2 or 2x4 grid fill pattern.

The big problem I've got with these is-
a. They do not allow for irregular room areas or even link to zone areas, except for ceiling object. b. They do not adequately allow for either centering or edge justifying the grid. c. They do not allow for easy or automatic hole cutting for light fixtures, diffusers, etc. You have to use solid element operations to accomplish. The Archicad library fluorescent light fixtures do not even center up in grid correctly, the origin is offset in some way. The light fixtures should have hole cutting capability just like windows and doors, maybe they are just not made correctly. Or maybe I'm just thinking to much off center.

It's hard to believe that a Architectural 3D design program that is used for so much commercial and institutional work around the world does not have a simple method for creating lay-in grid type ceilings as part of the system, and that allows for addition of lights and air devices. The ideas behind all of the effort is to simplify the design both 2D and 3D and make it as realistic as possible.

Anyway, I guess what I am asking, do you know of any better way to accomplish grid ceilings?

And please excuse my rantings.
========================
Does the above post make the request clearer?
Thanks!

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:22:16 GMT

cadtek wrote:
A friend ask me to post the following for him -
The opinions expressed are not mine.

I have used plain slabs . with lights floating underneath them. Now we can use the applied vector hatch to do the grid. Locate the origin in the 3d window as desired.

If you ned more realism such as coarse surface textures, you would be out of luck I believe.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:49:06 GMT

HANIEL wrote:
cadtek wrote:
A friend ask me to post the following for him -
The opinions expressed are not mine.
I have used plain slabs . with lights floating underneath them. Now we can use the applied vector hatch to do the grid. Locate the origin in the 3d window as desired.

If you ned more realism such as coarse surface textures, you would be out of luck I believe.

I've had fairly good success applying the ceiling tile texture to the slab material to mimic a lay-in ceiling.

Re: Ceiling Grid

jatassoc — Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:44:12 GMT

Millard,

With regard to your image, I have several questions on the manner in which you do lay-in ceilings. Since I'm really the guy that caused this thread to be started and since you are a good ole TEXAS boy too, I don't feel so bad imposing-

1. What is the source of the texture for 2x2 grid& tiles?
2. Is same texture used for both renderings and reflected ceiling plan?
3. What is source of light fixt., Archicad library or other, what are significant settings?
4. How do you cut holes in slab for fixt. (boolean)?

Now to the wall - What texture did you use for glass block windows?

Thanks in Advance,

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:32:34 GMT

Millard wrote:
I've had fairly good success applying the ceiling tile texture to the slab material to mimic a lay-in ceiling.

Millard, assuming you mean a suspended ceiling here, how do you get it to show up properly in 3D cutaways or sections with this approach? It's all well and good for it to look nice in a rendering like this, but one needs to be able to see the space in sections and so on.

Wendy

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Apr 2005 03:35:58 GMT

1. What is the source of the texture for 2x2 grid& tiles?

It is a 3rd party texture from a library in our office. I'm not sure of the original source of the library. It's named TL_66 Ceiling Tile

2. Is same texture used for both renderings and reflected ceiling plan?

No, the texture is just used in the renderings. For the ceiling plan I applied a fill to the ceiling slab to show the ceiling grid.

3. What is source of light fixt., Archicad library or other, what are significant settings?

The light fixture is the Archicad Fluorescent Recessed 01. I'm not in the office, but I believe the settings were the default. I did have to check "use the object's materials. Also I may have increased the light intensity.

4. How do you cut holes in slab for fixt. (boolean)?

I set the light fixtures slightly below the ceiling plane and they show in the rendering this way.

Now to the wall - What texture did you use for glass block windows?

The window is theW Glass Block Wall with Glass Block1 for the glass texture. I had to size the texture to the size of the blocks in the window.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Apr 2005 03:42:14 GMT

Wendy wrote:
Millard wrote:
I've had fairly good success applying the ceiling tile texture to the slab material to mimic a lay-in ceiling.
Millard, assuming you mean a suspended ceiling here, how do you get it to show up properly in 3D cutaways or sections with this approach? It's all well and good for it to look nice in a rendering like this, but one needs to be able to see the space in sections and so on.

Wendy

This was just a schematic rendering to sell the space to the Owner, so no sections or construction drawings yet. Actually for those I generally embellish the sections with 2D to show the lay-in ceiling detail.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:11:21 GMT

I share the despair about the missing ceiling grid object. The need is for an object that draws the ceiling grid in floor plan and provides the hotspots at the tile corners and perhaps centers to be used as guides for placing light fixtures HVAC stuff etc. (this last critical part is what a fill by itself cannot do).

The object should draw a potentially infinite grid starting from a user-defined center, or from the object 0,0, and have a user-definable number of sides with editable hotspots at the corners so that it can take rooms with wildly irregular shapes, including L/V shapes.

In 3D the approach would be to make a larger tartan and then crop it to shape using CUTPOLYs, but there is no such command in 2D. One can script 3D lines and PROJECT2 3,270,2 them into the floor plan, but that won't bring in the HOTSPOTs. (And the object needs to work in floor plan, laying out the ceiling for each room in 3D would be a mess.)

So if I am getting it right, instead of cropping a larger tartan to shape, in 2D each HOTSPOT2 must somehow be told whether to show or not. I can picture a trigonometry-based flag that checks whether the hotspot is closer to the object origin/grid layout center than the edge point along that polar bearing, which will do the job with a couple of restrictions to the shape (an 'S' shaped space would need to be covered by several 'ceiling grid' objects, which is not great, but well that's life). Can anybody think of a better flag idea, or a better overall approach?

Re: Ceiling Grid

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:09:40 GMT

Ignacio wrote:
Can anybody think of a better flag idea, or a better overall approach?

Yes I think I can! Editing a roof accessory object should be faster and allow for holes, S shaped rooms, etc., and would allow for both flat and sloped ceilings. I'll try that over the weekend.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:02:14 GMT

Millard wrote:

This was just a schematic rendering to sell the space to the Owner, so no sections or construction drawings yet. Actually for those I generally embellish the sections with 2D to show the lay-in ceiling detail.

How would just creating a second thin slab and placing it the correct distance below the actual ceiling slab work, applying your textures to that?

Wendy

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:32:11 GMT

I actually use a thin slab, set at the ceiling elevation that has the 2D hatch for the ceiling plan and the material set for a 3d rendering. It will just show as a flat slab for the sections though. For these there will need to be additional detail added.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:12:59 GMT

Just a comment:

Your wish of a suspended raster ceiling was already completed in AC 7.0 (HUN) There were two types of ceiling in the Interior wizard: wooden and plaster-plate. You could insert lamps, airconditioning elements etc.
It was interesting that in different R versions of 7.0 this add-on was totally different... The last 7.0 version has already used editable hotspots in the floor plane in form of "Settings panel"! It was the preview of a new method of setting parameters: you could edit them without opening any parameters dialog window! Note, editable hotspots were next time used only in library parts of version 9!

I don't understand why were this ceiling types deleted of the following add-on versions. 😞( There is only plain ceiling now.
I also hope that we will see the new editing method on floor plane again in the next versions of ArchiCAD.
I'll attach a picture later.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Aussie John — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:41:37 GMT

I dont think I would ever use an object for a ceiling. Too difficult when the ceiling is anything but a plan rectangle.
Also you dont need hotspots to all the fill intersections as you can set up the CAD grid to give you one click positioning.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 19:49:22 GMT

It's true that automated commands often mean restrictions. Eg. if you want to combine two types of ceilings, a plane strip around the border of the room and another raster-type in the center you first have to create two zone polygons only for the ceiling construction.
The hanging structure is also missing from the model.
But automatic installation of lamps (with cut outs), AC parts, sensors etc is a nice thing.
This add-on would be useful but it has to be improved.

Re: Ceiling Grid

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:33:14 GMT

Raster suspended ceiling the easy way:

1. Make a slab for the suspended ceiling.
2. Draw the grid you need with walls 2cm wide and 1cm high at the slab level. Move them to a hidden layer.
3. CEO the walls from the slab
4. You got a raster ceiling!
5. Arrange the lamps you want.
6. Select the slab and cut holes for the lamps, using the walls intersections for hotspots!

Who needs a special tool for this?!