topic Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li in Libraries & objects

Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Linety

TomWaltz — Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:07:17 GMT

We have a few users who like to turn off the "Use Object Color" and "Use Object Linetypes" options when placing objects, making objects completely one color or another.

Is there any way to over-ride the override, FORCING Archicad to use the intended Object Colors from the GDL script?

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

David Larrew — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:21:47 GMT

A true CAD Manager question...
Unfortunately, no.

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

TomWaltz — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:36:53 GMT

A true CAD Manager question...
Unfortunately, no.

so I'm hearing... but to the API, all things are possible 🙂

I've got that disabled, and am working on a few other pet peeves now .......

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

Erika Epstein — Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:29:48 GMT

Tom,
What are their answers when you ask them why they do this? Perhaps there is an unforseen condition/working process that should be incorporated into the template, with a new favorites settings or something that can address their concern?

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

James Murray — Sat, 26 Jun 2004 13:32:39 GMT

Erika wrote:
What are their answers when you ask them why they do this? Perhaps there is an unforseen condition/working process that should be incorporated into the template, with a new favorites settings or something that can address their concern?

This is insightful and considerate. I was going to say something like, 'Get a bigger hammer', i.e., sounds like a training issue. But it only becomes a training issue when the object is finished, when your users', and your office's, needs are really met. Then it becomes the users' responsiblity to learn and use the object correctly. Now the hammer, er, standards enforcement, comes in.

PS, Tom's wish is good. One of the big advantages of GDL is the ability to embody standards, to make it impossible to do things wrong. The 'Use Object's...' checkboxes can be a loophole. The more control we have in this area the better.

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:56:34 GMT

Tom,

Please excuse me for butting in, but I think people would be interested to know what you did.

Tom's API just resets the default for the object tool to use the internally defined pens. As I understand it, one can still override the pens of elements once they are placed. I like this approach since it preserves the flexibility but removes the option to repeatedly make mistakes by default.

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

TomWaltz — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:49:55 GMT

Sorry, I haven't been on in a few days.

The problem is usually one of laziness. People "do not feel like" settings the individual pens for complex objects, such as cabinets, doors, or windows, so they override them.

The problem that arises is when you have an object that REQUIRES more than one pen weight to maintain a drafting standard, such as an interior elevatiton symbol (heavy permineter with lighter internal divider line) and doors (heavier frame pen, lighter swing pen).

Turning off the "Usel Symbol Pens" and "Use Symbol Linetypes" gives everything a very flat look.

Matthew is correct. I wrote a simple add-on that our users don't even see. Whenever they select a tool, the add-on sets the value for any office-standard setting for that tooll.

As an example, when they select the object tool, the "Use Symbol" options are turned on. If a user needs to turn them off, they can easily do so.

I did the same thing for layer selection of dimensions and text. The add-on detects the current view (plan, section, or detail) and the current scale, then selects a working layer for that tool based on the company standard.

It wasn't that hard, and most users don't consciously realize it's there.

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

Erika Epstein — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:19:34 GMT

GREAT add-on.
Unfortunately sounds like a topic for you next office meeting to review the office standards with the powers that be there to back you up.

(or recharge the batteries in your cattle prod)

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

TomWaltz — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:47:28 GMT

My request was for a whipping post, actually.

It only took me an hour or two to write the add-on once I had the list of what I wanted, and figured it was worth the reduced aggravation as project managers would come to me as ask why all the pen weights look the same in this "great new program" we're on.

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

Erika Epstein — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:59:17 GMT

just curious,
I've noticed that often people using AC and other cad programs who never learned to draft by hand aren't always as sensitive to what lineweights can do i.e make it easier to read by emphazing what you want the drawing to communicate. They seem to take their cues from engineering drawings which tend to the "flat" look you mentioned. Would this apply here?

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

James Murray — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:34:51 GMT

Erika wrote:
I've noticed that often people using AC and other cad programs who never learned to draft by hand

...Which leads to users blaming on 'computer problems' issues which are really drafting problems. If they were drawing by hand, the drawings would still look flat. At the end of the day, you have to look at the paper. If something doesn't look right, find out how to fix it.

It seems people coming from other CADs seem to accept more blah output; the ACAD look is just the way drawings look now. AC, especially with GDL, is extremely flexible. There's no such thing as 'the computer just does it that way.'

Re: Overriding "Use Object Colors" and ".. Li

TomWaltz — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:01:56 GMT

Which leads to users blaming on 'computer problems' issues which are really drafting problems. If they were drawing by hand, the drawings would still look flat. At the end of the day, you have to look at the paper. If something doesn't look right, find out how to fix it.

I just had that discussion with one of our associates, who is supposed to be in charge of "documentation quality." She and I (and another Forum member) are working on both the final look of the plotted drawing and the method to get there.

Unfortunately, in a company of our size (about 55 people), there are always those who just don't care what their work looks like. Before we switched to Archicad, much of our standards content was built into our CAD software interface (Arris). Our management has been very lax lately in dealing with such situations, since it is their belief that undera tight deadline, "we don't have time to fix it" and there are no penalties for those at fault. (I think they should be staying on their own time, off the clock, to fix the problems).

When we started the switch to Archicad last year, the number 1 complaint from users was that it took a lot of effort to get the same "drafted" look that we were used to in our CAD drawings. The number 1 complaint from the project managers was that the drawings did not look as good. It turned out that the users were under extremely tight deadlines, and taking every shortcut possible to get anything on paper in time.

So, the partners asked me to see what I could do to get the same level of quality and integration in Archicad that we had in Arris. They bought me CodeWarrior, a stack of C++ books, and the GDL manuals, and sent me on my way.

I've been working on a lot of simple GDL things, like Zone Labels that can be moved at varying scales, Labels that change in plan and elevation views, and Elevation/Section Markers than can be moved away from where the section line is. None of it is hard, it just needed a few hours to be accomplished.

I'm just now digging into the API, and am seeing the vast untapped potential of Archicad. I've only worked on administrative tasks so far, but see a lot more that can be done for modeling and productivity purposes.

Some of that includes giving users a "default" which complies with company standards.

Obviously, this only works because we have so many users. If each of 15 full-time users saves 2 minutes a day, I can spend 2 1/2 hours a week on this and the company breaks even. The "occasional" users can save even more, since they are not as likely to know the pen/layer settings off the top of their heads, and have to dig for answers.