topic Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads in Libraries & objects

Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Thu, 12 Jul 2018 02:00:56 GMT

I have been struggling to get this option to work, then I realised that it has to do with the stair option for 'End with riser/tread'
If the stair is set to end with a tread, then this railing option works fine.
But if the stair is set to end with riser, then this option does not work at all.
It is not greyed out as unavailable, nothing is mentioned in the user guide or on-line help (that I could see), and nothing is mentioned in the YouTube video (starting at 8.45) ...

I would rarely end a stair with a tread as I would most often use the top landing (slab) as the last tread.

I just wanted to mention this as it had me stumped for a while.
I have reported it to the Aussie distributors as a possible bug.
Hopefully it is something that can be fixed or a warning added or the option greyed out when not available.
It is not a killer problem as the posts can be positioned by other methods, but it does also affect the balusters on each tread as well.

Barry.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

felcunha — Thu, 12 Jul 2018 02:41:46 GMT

Hello Barry,
Confirmed. Tried in AC22 and it does the same.
For me it's a bug... its behaviour does not fit with the command.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Daniel Kovacs — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:55:49 GMT

Hello,

This is definitely a bug, it is on our list to fix it! It should work even if the stair ends with a riser. I updated our entry about this issue with the info from here.

Thanks for letting us know!

Regards,

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 01:05:52 GMT

Thanks Daniel.

Barry.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

SeaGeoff — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 00:14:50 GMT

Related question. The default location of the posts is right over the nosing whether you are using the pattern length option, magic wand or whatever. That is shown in Barry's images and in mine.

First, how can that possibly be what I want?
Second, why is there no offset parameter?
Third, what is the best way to move those posts back (toward the riser) to a logical position?

Thanks.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 01:39:51 GMT

Just playing quickly I can see two possible solutions.

The first, and I think best, is to just reduce the height of the segment going up the stair
I believe this is fairly standard practice to achieve the continuous flow of rails at the post position (i.e. no gooseneck).

The problem with this is you will get slightly odd shaped panel which I can't see any control for.
The inner rail connection may also need adjusting (I don't have those rails in my image but I just noticed you do).

The second is to add an extra node to the reference line of the railing.
Where ever there is a node you will get a post.
Then you can delete unwanted panels and posts.
Only problem with this is that it seems the panel can not have a negative offset from the deleted post.
So it can't be stretched to the next post - I believe balusters can.

Barry.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Lingwisyer — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 02:47:37 GMT

I think this is with regards to within the stair flight as well.

Setting a node offset will shift the post position, except for the post on the top tread... while the reference line is on the nosing... scrap that, more inconsistencies...

Ling.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 02:53:27 GMT

Lingwisyer wrote:
I think this is with regards to within the stair flight as well.

Yes sorry, if you have an associated railing, just add an extra node to the stair boundary line.

Barry.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 07:50:52 GMT

I don't think my railing was associated properly to the stair before.
Either that or it is because that was version 21.
I find version 22 is better for railings.
This is 22.

Railing is associated to stair (i.e. placed with magic wand).
You can adjust the offset at the change of angle.
Then you just have to adjust the height of the sloping segment to form a smooth transition.
You will need to measure the height needed in elevation (at the front of the nosing/tread) and then change the segment height in 3D.
The rails all have direct connections so there is no need to adjust anything there.
Just need to adjust the height of the rail under the handrail so it looks like it is in the correct position - can be dragged by eye in the 3D or elevation (elevation is easier).

Barry.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

SeaGeoff — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:40:32 GMT

Thanks for digging into this Barry. I completely missed those offset fields. Below are a few things I discovered as I worked the problem. Please note that this project is in AC21. I will check my findings against AC22 to see if anything has changed.

1) In order to change the segment height of one segment relative to the other you need to first "Create Independent Segments and Nodes (context or Design menu). I missed that fact and was stuck until I figured it out.

2) It would be great if the tool allowed graphic editing of the segment height in elevation & 3D. My sloped segment was already correct by virtue of being associated to the stair. All I needed to do was raise the flat segment and a simple drag in 3D would be fast and easy.

3) It seems a simple matter for the tool to perform that last set actions automatically. Keeping the top rail joined without a step is a common arrangement. An option, similar to that offered for Non-smooth Connections, that would automatically increase the adjacent segment height, would be a welcome addition.

Nevertheless I got everything to work, and learned a lot about the tool along the way. Thanks again for the help.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

SeaGeoff — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:48:05 GMT

A couple more observations.

4) When independent segments are created the Ending Node Offset becomes independent too, which is great since the two ends can then have different settings. But like other custom settings in this tool, you have to select the now-custom node in edit mode first. The overall setting found when selecting the entire railing no longer applies.

5) Similarly, the Reference Line offset is now independent for each segment. That makes logical sense, but it exposes a weakness in the UI. Since Reference Line appears in the info box, and since it's unusual to have a different offset one segment to the next, it's natural to try to use the info box to offset the whole railing. There is no indicator there that custom settings are in effect. I thought it was a bug when nothing happened.

So the takeaway is that once the segments are independent you need to go into edit mode to do most everything.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:09:47 GMT

Geoff wrote:
1) In order to change the segment height of one segment relative to the other you need to first "Create Independent Segments and Nodes (context or Design menu). I missed that fact and was stuck until I figured it out.

I thought this as well, but when I did it in 22 I could select a single segment in 3D edit mode and adjust it separately.
It seems to perform the create independent segments automatically.
When you look at the complete railing settings you will now see a yellow warning triangle next to the segments to say they are independent.
I am not sure if this is the case in 21.

Geoff wrote:
2) It would be great if the tool allowed graphic editing of the segment height in elevation & 3D. My sloped segment was already correct by virtue of being associated to the stair. All I needed to do was raise the flat segment and a simple drag in 3D would be fast and easy.

I agree we could use a stretchy segment height.
22 has brought in hotspots for rail connections and rail ends.
It would be great to have a hotspot for segment heights as well.

Barry.

Re: Railing - set pattern length to number of treads

Barry Kelly — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:14:01 GMT

Geoff wrote:
4) When independent segments are created the Ending Node Offset becomes independent too, which is great since the two ends can then have different settings. But like other custom settings in this tool, you have to select the now-custom node in edit mode first. The overall setting found when selecting the entire railing no longer applies.

I think the overall settings still does affect one end of the railing, up to the point of the independent segment.

Geoff wrote:
So the takeaway is that once the segments are independent you need to go into edit mode to do most everything.

Basically, yes.

Barry.