topic Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries in Libraries & objects

Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

agroni — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 06:34:06 GMT

Hi everyone,

for some years now, we have been battling some unwanted Master GLD Libraries in our Teamwork projects. I have recently found out, that other offices are facing the same occurrence.

Let me explain what is happening...

We start the project with a clean template, where only our standard libraries are available. During the project development, more or less after 1-2 moths, these libraries located in some strange folders start appearing.

or here

You will probably think that is it from copying elements from other files. I can guarantee that this is not the case.

We have also tried the option of cleaning all related teamwork files. Nonetheless, the libraries appear after some weeks or months again. Because we don't receive error messages of missing libraries (after deleting them), this means that these libraries are not in use. We started to notice this problem already in Archicad 24. We are getting these master GDLs:

MASTER_GDL_ArchiCAD_Library.gdl

MASTER_GDLVelux81de_DB.gdl

ArchiCAD_Library_Master.gdl

Following my observations, I can conclude that the amount of those libraries might have a slight impact on performance. Still, we want to have super clean teamwork files, therefore it is bothering me a lot.

Does anyone have a similar case?

Why do they appear?

Did you manage to solve it?

I am very thankful for any input...

thanx

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Barry Kelly — Sun, 01 Oct 2023 09:14:19 GMT

MASTER_GDL files are a real problem as they populate your file with possibly unwanted attributes.

Ever noticed attributes in the attribute manager with names written in italic text - and you can't delete them as they simply return later?

These are from the MASTER_GDL files and will remain until you delete those files, then you can delete the attributes.

Even simply copying a line from one file to another will also copy across all of the MASTER_GDL file even though they are not used for that line, whether you want them or not.

Hotlinks will possibly do the same thing.

It has been mentioned to Graphisoft in developer forums which you may not be part of.

But as of yet there is no solution other than manually deleting these unwanted files and attributes.

Barry.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

agroni — Sun, 01 Oct 2023 18:13:29 GMT

Thanks @Barry Kelly for your fast reply.

We don't have any attributes in italic in our projects. That's a good sign, that it can be worse of what we have 🙂

For a really long time, we were thinking, that we had an internal bug wondering around our projects. We also had discussions with our Archicad support here in Austria, with sadly no results.

I am wondering what is keeping @GRAPHISOFT from repairing this matter??? Resources, time, importance?

It is a bug that has been following us at least from Archicad 24.

What is the top secret forum saying?

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Barry Kelly — Mon, 02 Oct 2023 01:06:08 GMT

@agroni wrote:

What is the top secret forum saying?

No official reply or solution from Graphisoft,

But a number of top users have clearly demonstrated the problem and voiced their opinions.

So GS are aware it is an issue.

But bringing it up here and reporting it to your local support is good as well.

The more people that report this as a problem, the more likely it will be looked into.

Jared Banks (Shoegnome) has also created a blog article about it.

http://www.shoegnome.com/2023/08/03/archicad-tutorial-92-copy-and-paste-embedded-libraries-and-master_gdl-viruses/

Barry.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

agroni — Mon, 02 Oct 2023 14:25:41 GMT

Wow, it is crazy to see that even by copying a single Hotstpot brings all that garbage into the file.

But in shoegnome's case, he was copying elements from one file to the other, which for us it is not the case. There is probably another reason on how these master GDLs are being transported from one file to another. Slowly I am beginning to think that even if the files are in Teamwork, this "worm" gets from one file into another.

It would be an honor to hear what @GRAPHISOFT has to say about this.

We, as the biggest users and largest Archicad clients are seeking some answers for a situation that has been bothering all of us for a long time.

To all the Archicad Community out there, let's make out of this bug situation a big situation. Post likes or replies until someone gets a signal in Budapest.

If anyone else has a better idea... simple go ahead and speak 🙂

cheers

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:57:53 GMT

it's been a while since I've complained about this. and a bit since this thread has been commented on. I'll give it a bump here. this software "feature" is pretty nearly the bane of my entire existence. EVERY one of my clients has been frustrated with this file pollution issue. We do everything we can to keep files clean, but it's so ****** volatile. Any copy paste or local data containing a master_gdl.gsm file will bring in the pollution.
It's especially awesome <sarcasm> when the team is working away and they update their modules, not realizing the corruption is in the module. Now we need to purge all modules, clean the file, and replace the modules, hoping to all things holy that we get the module back in the correct position and rotation.
If no other feature is added to future versions of AC, just keep master_gdl.gsm and the resulting surfaces OUT of my archicad files. I'm going to be spending the rest of the night trying to get this file cleaned up because these objects and the surfaces are everywhere, in every module! Ya'll are making my life pretty miserable with this ****

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

furtonb — Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:06:47 GMT

It's also a good idea to have an absolutely nuked template file (no layers, no line types, no materials other than the essentially required ones, but you match the story settings of your "real project") to see what a simple copy-paste or a hotlink will bring to the live file. It is not 100% working, as deadline pressure makes people think "whatever" leaving files wonderfully polluted.

You might ask: why do I have to make this so complicated, maybe Sisyphus was among the first users of Archicad? If he was, he might still be wondering why the simple copy-pasting of elements (between files: the attribute-mayhem, within the file: lack of proper instancing and in-place hotlink editing) is such an overlooked area, but as with the rock, he is destined to exist without a solution for eternity and keep cleaning files forever.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Fri, 15 Mar 2024 16:26:03 GMT

I instruct my clients to "sandbox" any copy/paste work, and even any external content import. If your working file is clean (no master_gdl.gsm BS or polluted surfaces), jsut go 'file>new>from current settings', then paste into THAT file. Same concept, just no need to have a stripped down version of the template. gives a clear idea of any unwanted pollution thats going to come in, and gives you a chance to clean things up and do a second copy/paste to get the content in without (hopefully, maybe not, probably doesn't work) dragging the unwanted surfaces and embedded library objects with it

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

rodut1112 — Fri, 26 Apr 2024 13:10:02 GMT

I`e been trying to get rid of Master GDL files in our office for the last 5 years, and they still propagate like a virus. No matter how clean a template is, once someone opens a older file and copies even a line/fill, then these GDL master files come into play. The one in the image attached is the cancer that keeps spreading and its from 2012, but somehow it keeps showing up in newer files.

This hoermann gdl i believe comes from a garage door manufacturer. I guess, someone used a bim components object once and now we are doomed.

This software is so hopeless lately(past 10 years)

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Fri, 26 Apr 2024 17:19:45 GMT

yes, we have one that has been hanging around since 2011. they are always manufacturer specific. I get why this was a 'feature', but it ought to come with a warning

"you are pasting elements that contain a master_gdl.gsm, would you like to:

-proceed

-cancel

-omit master_gdl and its attributes"

or just do away with third party master gdl compatibility all together. no one needs the manufacturer to provide the surfaces integrated into their objects. If they want to include them, have them include an aat or xml file that we can import manually.

I've also noticed that files sometimes become polluted simply by opening. I recently opened a file that was 100% clean. I did no copy/paste at all. I checked the embedded library and surfaces and it was full of 150+ extra surfaces and the cursed master_gdl.gsm objects. I can only assume it was somehow tied to a cache of local data that sync'ed to the file. I don't know.
It's beyond annoying. Trying to keep 50-75 files free of this is basically a full time job, especially for projects using .mod, since it requires stripping them out, cleaning the file, rebuilding them and replacing them, every time the modules get polluted.

master_gdl.gsm is quite probably the most frustrating part of my job.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

furtonb — Sat, 27 Apr 2024 13:18:30 GMT

At least you can create a folder for them and put everything there that was generated. 🙂

I used to care about this, I gave up - there are much more important things than to spend half a day every second day to clean the mess someone caused by copy-pasting something from a previous project. Result? 63736 unnecessary surfaces, fills, etc. making consistency hard to reach.

Revoking all rights (for BIMcloud projects) from everyone is a “no go” option for me, I don’t wish to become necessary for every attribute-related question or task. -.-

Have you guys read Graeber’s **beep** jobs? I cannot recommend it enough, I had found it to describe the current state of BIM management strikingly too.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Lucian Laculeanu — Tue, 30 Apr 2024 01:23:33 GMT

My observations during battling these Virus-like elements for years:

- They are randomly attaching to existing attributes.

- Copying elements between projects does help in spreading them out. This is still the biggest spread factor. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there is a higher probability for people not to recognize when they did this move than to admit they did it... So.. "nobody is copying stuff from other places", meaning "no one is trying shortcuts" it is not fully believable in our field.

- Having an "infected" file open while working in a clean one makes this thing jump? I have listed this only once in my activity as plausible, but I still think that in the hurry of the production process, the person executed a series of rushed shortcuts that helped into something being transferred. That is hard to trace since everyone has its own shortcut map.

I don't want to "jinx" my limited success...but here are some actions I took and it works until that "trust element" is being broken:

- ALL attributes are mapped and all indexes are known. No new attribute is introduced without BIM management vetting. It is easier to pinpoint and delete attributes that may make their way in without your consent.

- No copy paste, unless from vetted source.

- Before Release or Send/receive always check library, and the main target attributes - fills and surfaces. This was hard but is catching on. Regardless of the team member, the user introducing them will be able to see them underlined or green in the case of the library.

- BIM manager is always browsing active projects. (dare to say, acting on suspicions... sad but true...)

- No hot-link is attached unless "clean"

- Limit external links in all projects.

I've attached here a pic of one of the projects that was in a terrible state. This was part of the assessment process:

In this one I've observed a tendency of the "virus" to re-appear. I chose to trust the users and on a hunch, believing that it could be possible for it to attach itself to one of the "custom attributes", I went for a cleanup that presumed reducing all attributes to sandbox and re-introducing the custom ones after filtering them through a "Sandbox new file" (import XML in and export new one form there). This worked fine until someone copy/pasted.

I gave up then, but now I am trying to come up with a protocol for vetting all archived projects and one to reduce the need of referring to any of them.

I think it is just an us working like crazy thing.

The shrugging of shoulders will continue for some un-numbered years. I hope I am proved wrong on this, but trust always only bit me in the... end.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Tue, 07 May 2024 23:15:57 GMT

here's a gem. pollution is in the modules. only way to clean it up is to purge all modules, clean up the library and surfaces, build new modules, place new modules (hopefully, but not likely) in the original position.
If we can't get a fix to keep master_gdl.gsm out of the libraries, can we at least have a way to clean up module libraries without purging and rebuilding the whole thing? This particular file has 6 modules, all carry the pollution. It's going to take me all afternoon to clean this up. and since I have to do it when no one else is in the project (so I can reserve all), it's going to actually be an overnight or weekend project. Archicad is basically forcing me to work nights and weekends because of this bS.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Fri, 03 May 2024 18:05:55 GMT

BTW, I'm never going to NOT respond to this thread every time it gets a hit or I get another polluted file until we get a solution that works, not just another work-around or workflow specific way to 'prevent' this.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Fri, 03 May 2024 18:12:02 GMT

the list of ways to avoid pollution mean that project teams are fixated on avoiding pollution, instead of designing and documenting.
I've seen 2 results of pressuring teams to keep pllution down by all means necessary:

1. they don't fully understand the myriad of causes/triggers, and miss a crucial step occasionally

2. they don't understand the pollution being described and avoid any document coordination (IFC/DWG may bring in layers or surfaces, so they equate that to being "bad")

I've been struggling with this issue for well over 10 years now, and trying to teach project teams to avoid this is like trying to convince them that learning a little GDL is worth it. It either stresses them out, or they can't be bothered to understand the issue. I agree, avoiding copy/paste is instrumental in keeping this clean. But c/p is definitely not the only trigger for pollution. The solution needs to be from a development side, not an end user workflow side.

In the mean time, a not too inconsiderable amount of my work day will continue to be spent scouring the dozens of t/w files I'm managing on several BIM servers to try to keep it weeded out as best as possible (which is a very uphill battle, as you know).

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

agroni — Fri, 03 May 2024 19:27:40 GMT

Thank you all for your replies. It is sad to hear, that we are all dealing with the same problem.

In the beginning I thought it was our internal fault, that these "bugs" were appearing, because some bear names of familiar projects or instances.

I think, it is time that Graphisoft took the case more seriously and pushed it into the roadmap. Actually, it is not a part of a roadmap, but repairing the mistake. Anyone from Budapest would like to share some thoughts?

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Patrick M — Wed, 08 May 2024 15:41:53 GMT

just giving this one more bump;
this week I found a project that consists of 6 intertwined teamwork files, each containing 3-8 hotlink modules (as well as various consultants ifc modules). It's such a big project, I can only clean it up nights and weekends so as to not have the team trip over my reservations. I'm also stuck with the task of untangling and replacing cleaned modules in the exact position, with limited direct knowledge of design intent.
if this were a simple "delete the master_GDL and offending attributes", it could be done by the team, or I could do it with no worry of adverse impact on the project and documents. But since it requires scrubbing through the libraries to locate the problem, most project teams either can not do the clean up reliably, or do not have the hours in teh project scope to dedicate to the task.

Either cleaning HLM libraries needs to be easier, or this pollution issue needs to just not be allowed to happen from now on.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

davidzsibrita — Tue, 16 Jul 2024 13:15:43 GMT

I am currently testing a possible workaround. Maybe someone has already tried it and can provide feedback, or does anyone see a potential problem that I don't see yet?

I am currently gathering all the known MasterGDL from our office into a linked library.

The experience so far is that when this library is linked to a project, no new elements end up in the embedded library after copying.

The attributes are initially included in the project. However, they would be copied in over time anyway.

The advantage is that if you copy something from this file later, nothing gets transferred because nothing is in the embedded library. Copy/Paste is significantly faster.

The idea is that after a few years, no project will have the MasterGDL in the embedded library, and this linked MasterGDL library can be removed from the project templates.

Still, you need to check afterwards to ensure it doesn't pop up somewhere again.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 16 Jul 2024 13:55:20 GMT

The Kling Loading Dock Library Objects seem to place a macro that queried the list of surfaces and if they weren't there added 192 RAL Colours. This continues to haunt the office via the copy/paste virus like feature that GS refuses to remove.

Re: Unwanted Master GDL in the libraries

Darkas — Wed, 25 Sep 2024 15:09:15 GMT

Hello,

I have the same problem.
The worst part about manually deleting libraries is that I have to reserve each library individually and then delete it.

Do you have any tricks for this?