topic Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28 in Libraries & objects

Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Wed, 30 Oct 2024 13:45:41 GMT

There is a duplicate object (Tolerance.gsm) when following Option 1 instructions for Archicad 28 Migration.

Operating system used: Mac Apple Silicon Sonoma 14.6.1

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Barry Kelly — Thu, 31 Oct 2024 01:52:39 GMT

I have no idea what that object is for or what it does.

But it seems it has been added to the 'DXF-DWG In-Out' add-on.

Instead of adding a 'new' 28 object, Graphisoft seem to have added the version 27 object.

So now when we add the 28 Library (which is actually the 27 library and should be in a '27' folder not '28') we end up with the duplicate.

Maybe @Magdolna Marosvari can shed some light on this please?

Either the object in the28 add-on needs to be updated to version 28 or the one in the 27 library needs to be removed (but that won't help if any one is linking to the library from the actual 27 version).

Barry.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Magdolna Marosvari — Thu, 31 Oct 2024 11:03:42 GMT

Hi @Ransom Ratcliff and @Barry Kelly ,

Tolerance.gsm gives a duplicate warning in Library Manager when Archicad Library 28 (with 27 content) is loaded, because Tolerance.gsm became a built-in AC28. This is because we wanted to make sure that the DXF Add-on will be able to use the Monolith and the Global Library too. The duplication does not cause functional problems.

Best regards,

Magdolna

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 01:50:52 GMT

This was discussed during the Beta and I was under the impression that they were going to remove it from the Monolith 27 LCF so that it wouldn't show the duplicate error. IMO this is not the professional answer nor it should be the accepted solution.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Thu, 31 Oct 2024 13:51:56 GMT

Hi @Magdolna Marosvari ,

I agree that this one "duplication does not cause functional problems," but that technicality misses a crucial point.

This exception adds confusion for users in a critical area of operating ArchiCAD because both library duplicates and missing parts are a common cause of ArchiCAD problems. This was true during my ten years in tech support, five years as a BIM Manager, seven years as a Senior BIM Consultant at GS and continues to be the underlying cause of performance and stability problems that my clients face regularly, to this day. That is why we stress a zero-tolerance policy on library warnings. As soon as a warning appears, users should fix it instead of letting it slide, or it will likely soon get far messier, with hundreds or thousands of duplicates, and much harder to clean up and untangle.

Making an exception for this one object shoots a hole in our Best Practices training and opens the door to more frustration and wasted time for our clients.

And let me add, that since Library Management is a critical part of BIM Management in any ArchiCAD firm, I think the jury is still out on whether many of us want to switch away from a monolithic library to these Library Packages because the list of loaded libraries gets so long, it becomes hard to troubleshoot and find the needle in the haystack.

Here is what the user sees now in the Library Manager:

We can't even see all 49 of them without scrolling. Much less understand which ones we need to add or remove, when there is a problem.

I'm just sayin'... 🙂

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Barry Kelly — Fri, 01 Nov 2024 01:58:19 GMT

Deleting it from the monolith 27 library in 28 application folder will help, but not if someone has a file linking to the 27 library in the 27 application folders.

Yes - they can re-link to the 28 application folder (I still don't understand why that 27 library is in a folder that says 28 - so confusing).

Why not just save the tolerance object in the add-on as a version 28 object with a new GSID, the same as has happened for all ne 28 objects in the library packs?

In every version so far we have had a tolerance object for each version (25, 26, 27).

Why should this be any different in 28?

Barry.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 21:28:43 GMT

I've gone ahead and made a cleaned version of the monolithic Archicad Library 28, which I'll keep on Dropbox here.

This is a solution if you want to use the monolithic “Archicad Library 28” instead of the new myriad collection of Library Packages introduced with Archicad 28.
This library is an update to the monolithic Archicad Library 28 which has the “Tolerance 27.gsm” removed so it won’t show as a duplicate part when used in Archicad 28.
It is replaced with “Tolerance 27 DELETED.png” image file just to reduce confusion.

This part was located in the Library Container file at:
ArchiCAD 28\Archicad Library 28\Object Library 27.lcf\ADD-ON LIBRARY 27\Specialties 27\Import Objects 27\ Tolerance 27.gsm

The changed “Object Library 27.lcf” was re-saved as “Object Library 27 USA for 28.lcf”

Two Solutions:

Simply replace the Object Library 27.lcf in the monolithic “Archicad Library 28” with the “Object Library 27 USA for 28.lcf” file.

Or simply add this library, “Archicad Library 28 cleaned” to your Archicad 28 application folder and re-path your company template to load this instead of the original. This option is simply additive and doesn't change the content from Graphisoft.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Barry Kelly — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 01:49:46 GMT

Great that you have done this Ransom, thanks.

Two things I would like to clarify.

What you (and Graphisoft) call the 28 Monolith Library is actually the 27 library?

I do not know why Graphisoft insist on calling it '28' when it is the 27 library.

So it is indeed the 27 library just located in a folder called 'Archicad Library 28'

This is only the USA library?

So may not be suitable for other language users.

I am assuming that the 27 library packaged with each language version is different as it was in the past.

Barry.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Magdolna Marosvari — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 22:32:46 GMT

Hi @Ransom Ratcliff ,

Have you tried to arrange the library packages into folders according to your preferences? In Archicad 28 you have the liberty to arrange them the way it fits your thinking / workflow. You can keep working with them as one big whole if you like or you can arrange them into subfolders. This foldering possibility is given both for Graphisoft provided and for own content. And both the Library Manager and the Object Settings Dialog will follow the desired folder structure you create on your computer. See the attached image where I created a random arrangement. If you load your preferred folders instead of the default ones you can have a more suitable overview.

Bests,

Magdolna

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 15:05:17 GMT

Hi Barry,

Yes, the monolithic Archicad Library 28 is a copy of the ArchiCAD Library 27, AFIK. (I did notice that they changed the "Archicad Library.version" file.)

This is similar to what normally happens with each new release of ArchiCAD because most of the parts are identical with only a change to the second half of their GUID (Revision ID). For those few objects that are substantially changed, affecting their function or default parameters, the first half of the GUID (Main ID) is changed. These objects, and any files that are discontinued, are put into the Migration Library for that version. But this wasn't necessary in this exercise.

In any case, the installed monolithic "Archicad Library 28" and "Archicad Library 27" won't be confused because they have different names and are located in different paths. Indeed, when ArchiCAD can't find a linked library at the path that is listed in the Library Manager, it looks in the folder next to the PLN and next to the currently running Archicad application executable, just in case it's there.

The truth is that library localization has been too little too late, every year since 1995, IMHO. But now that we have 30 years of accumulated "progress" getting USA content and default parameters that none of the other markets want or care about, I inclined to believe that these international library packs are a step backward, at least in this first version.

I'm reminded of a joke my old Hungarian friends used to tell about the early days of Graphisoft approaching the American market...

"We keep hearing about something called a "two by four". Then we saw it in an email "2x4" so we thought, of course! 😀

It is 4!

Then we found out that it was a piece of wood. 🙄

And it is neither 2 nor 4! 🤔 It's 1.5 inches x 3.5 inches. 😒 "

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 15:42:31 GMT

Hi @Magdolna Marosvari and All,

This seems a huge task with many possible pitfalls, especially for someone who isn't the original author of these libraries. We can't even see the contents of the libpak files in the File Manager without extracting them, much less understand which files and macros are called by which other parts.

This is far more difficult than even producing the subset Migration Libraries for each version of ArchiCAD (which I did for our market for AC6.5 through 10, at which point GS kindly took it over, which was easier for them without the reverse engineering and trial and error I was going through. lol But I was paid by the local reseller by the hour to do this each year.)

We really should not expect architecture firms to float this kind of overhead for their BIM Managers to figure this out and implement it, company by company. I hope Graphisoft, with their deep understanding of GDL and the library legacies, will do this heavy lifting again for all of us. Just use a different Main ID in the GUIDs of localized parts that are actually different, and we'll be able to collaborate internationally without missing parts or duplicates.

Sorry if I'm missing something.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:39:31 GMT

Hi @Magdolna Marosvari,

I tried to follow your instructions but none of the parts in the Library Packages load if they are in a folder and I try to load the folder as a monolithic library.

Here is what tried:

Starting with the default USA template "AC28 USA Template.tpl" I see that it is loading 48 library packs of the 77 provided in the "Archicad Library Packages" folder and one LCF file, "Archicad Legacy Objects USA.lcf",
So I copy these 48 LibPack files and the LCF into a new folder called "ArchiCAD LibPacks USA 28"
Then, in the Library Manager, I unload the separate LibPack files and the "Archicad Legacy Objects USA.lcf" and load the new ArchiCAD LibPacks USA 28 instead.

This results in 386 missing parts.

Indeed, the only parts that load while in the monolithic folder, are the ones in the LCF.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Ransom

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Magdolna Marosvari — Thu, 14 Nov 2024 13:44:10 GMT

Hi @Ransom Ratcliff ,

The steps you were doing are almost perfect. One thing: when you want to load the content of ArchiCAD Libpacks USA 28 folder do it in a way that you select all the libpacks within the folder with Cmd + A.

Regarding your previous message about the arrangement of the packages: There are multiple arrangement needs from users contradicting each other. Picking a certain arrangement would have deprived a group of users having them arranged in a way necessary for them. That's why we went for providing the liberty of arrangement. This doesn't mean that the thinking has to stop here, we see your point.

Best regards,

Magdolna

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Florin Luca — Tue, 19 Nov 2024 21:00:28 GMT

Hi @Magdolna Marosvari ,

Thank you, that last bit of clarification was really helpful. Question: is we create these custom folder and move/copy the libpacks there, will they be automatically updated in the future since their folder path has been changed? Or the updates will happened only to the original libpack folder and we have to copy the updated packs in our custom folders?

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

jfaugustine — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 12:53:02 GMT

Well said. I was working on our 28 template and part of the exercise, (as with earlier releases), was the have a clean library report, free of any duplicates or missing objects. No need to repeat what was already said quite accurately.

(I think an archicad professional named Ransom taught me several best practices about twenty years ago!)

Joe A.

(since 8.0)

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

SeaGeoff — Mon, 24 Feb 2025 23:32:21 GMT

@Magdolna Marosvari, I was just today doing some template work and see that the Tolerance duplicate bug is still with us despite a recent library update. This is really sloppy and unprofessional. Most of us experienced users strive for Zero library errors, which is a goal that should be shared and promoted by Graphisoft as well. Thanks.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

MarkT — Tue, 04 Mar 2025 04:00:28 GMT

We have our own DWG translator file loaded from the server, I removed the AC28 DXF-DWG In-Out apx from the Add-Ons folder on C:drive. This resolved the duplicates of course but creates a missing export element for publishing, for which I was not able to replace with our own. Now, how to edit the original apx file in order to remove the duplicate?

Update: Should have known there wouldn't be a simple fix. Thought it would be easier to replace the APX file than edit the LCF lib.

Update: So going back to Ransoms original solution: I unpacked the Object Lib 27 lcf , removed the Tolerance object then re-packed the lib and re-uploaded to the BIM. No issues & no duplicates.

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

thom_rees — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 09:44:07 GMT

I have had nothing but problems with the new library packages.

Firstly migrating any favourites and objects from the Monolithic 27 library to the 28 Library packages was an absolute nightmare, with either missing or duplicate objects. All door and window favourites for example had to be recreated as they used the labels that were now missing.

CI Tools Launchpad and Favourtie converter did help, but not with the doors and window labels.

Now working in teamwork, I have found loading the 40+ packages just destroys load time for files, as it believe it checks the consistency of your local TW data libraries with what is on the BIMcloud / servers, so doing this 40+ time compared with 1 is painfully slow. Like 30s load vs 5minutes (I'm not sure if there is another issue that I am unaware of)

I have managed to create a Monolithic library by exporting every library package to a local file and then reorganising the folders, this appears to have fixed the load time of teamwork files.

To say I am frustrated and disappointed with the release of Archicad 28 is the biggest understatment I could make

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

thom_rees — Sat, 08 Mar 2025 01:12:15 GMT

Hi Magdolna

It would be great if you could simply load a folder with all the individual packages that you wanted, I think this would be the best of both Monolithic and Packaged library system

Re: Duplicate Object in Monolithic Archicad Library 28

Ransom Ratcliff — Sat, 08 Mar 2025 02:15:22 GMT

Obviously correct!

File Management 101.
I’ve been doing ArchiCAD Tech Support non-stop since 1997.
Regardless of the stats GS was getting from its Test Track database over the years, I am still convinced that most of the problems that users had, were caused by library loading errors. Many of these manifested as different problems, strange instabilities and crashes! So they were miss-categorized.
A couple weeks ago, one of my clients had over 8 GB of Embedded Library content in a large Teamwork project. Most of it was duplicates. And more was junk that shouldn’t even be loaded once.
We’ve done really large federal projects in ArchiCAD 8.1 and later, (including AutoCAD MEP) and the computers of that time, but no amount of modern computer power can overcome bad practices today.
I have said since ArchiCAD 5.1 that good localization for the North American market would lead to trouncing Autodesk. They have their Achilles heel, and ArchiCAD is an ideal tool, at its core, to leverage that advantage.
We made great progress towards that in AC 7.0. But the ArchiCAD Library still needed a lot of work to get the content that any American would buy at Home Depot.
Now after all these years, it seems that Graphisoft had decided that annual library localization is too expensive. This is a retreat. And not a strategic retreat, at that!
Dear Friends, help us help you.
Please!