topic Re: Partial Structure Display Questions. in Libraries & objects

Partial Structure Display Questions.

Anonymous — Fri, 26 May 2023 10:20:52 GMT

I haven't played with this feature much before over the past two AC releases, but I have a few questions that I can't find the answer to in the manuals.

1 - When you switch to 'core only' are the doors and windows meant to stay turned on in the 3d window? I have a video from the AC12 release appearing to show the D+W turning completely off, which I guess would be the obvious behaviour, but unfortunately in AC13 my D+W stay visible. Am I missing a trick?

2 - How do use the Partial Structure settings for ceilings or floor finishes if you have separately modelled the plasterboard/floor finish from the structure? You can't have a single skin of plasterboard assigned as a finish in a composite. It needs to have a minimum of one skin defined as a 'core'. In a complex profile you don't have this limitation - you don't need to have any skins specified as a core, so why is there this difference?

3 - Why doesn't the Partial Structure effect apply automatically between any viewpoints opened from the Project map like all other settings do e.g. layer combinations, pen settings, scale etc? It seems to be individually switched for each viewpoint. For consistency shouldn't it behave like any other setting?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:04:37 GMT

Peter wrote:
I haven't played with this feature much before over the past two AC releases, but I have a few questions that I can't find the answer to in the manuals.

1 - When you switch to 'core only' are the doors and windows meant to stay turned on in the 3d window? I have a video from the AC12 release appearing to show the D+W turning completely off, which I guess would be the obvious behaviour, but unfortunately in AC13 my D+W stay visible. Am I missing a trick?

You will have to use the Filter Elements in 3D Dialog to hide the Doors/Windows. Then you may want to save it as a View for later reuse.

2 - How do use the Partial Structure settings for ceilings or floor finishes if you have separately modelled the plasterboard/floor finish from the structure? You can't have a single skin of plasterboard assigned as a finish in a composite. It needs to have a minimum of one skin defined as a 'core'. In a complex profile you don't have this limitation - you don't need to have any skins specified as a core, so why is there this difference?

That's a tricky one. I would say you should place those one-skin elements on a separate layer.

3 - Why doesn't the Partial Structure effect apply automatically between any viewpoints opened from the Project map like all other settings do e.g. layer combinations, pen settings, scale etc? It seems to be individually switched for each viewpoint. For consistency shouldn't it behave like any other setting?

Thanks in advance!

Yes, this is how it works. The Partial Structure Display is Viewpoint-specific so it remembers its setting in 3D, Floor Plan, Sections etc. even if you are not using a View to go there. I am sure it is so by design.
It works kind of like Grid Settings: specific to each Viewpoint.
I guess here using Views can also be an answer.

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:26:58 GMT

Thanks for the information, Laszlo.

From the videos and help files I got the impression it was more of a one-click solution. It seems only half as powerful as it could be. Just having the ability to assign a single skin composite as a finish would certainly help matters especially if you have to use discrete pieces of single skin wall and slab to fill in various gaps in the modelling. These are almost always 'finishes'.

Out of interest, how would you turn off the doors and windows in sections and elevations - the 'Filter Elements in 3d' settings have no effect in these views. I presume the main purpose of this setting is for displaying information for the structural engineers, but why would they need to see the door and window frames? Surely 'core only' should only display just the core elements and nothing else?

I also find it disconcerting that dimensions are associated with the partial structure setting that was activated when the dimension was placed, and acts like a secondary layer system - even if the object being dimensioned has no partial structure settings like a simple uniform fill slab. I'm not sure I like this behaviour. Would it make more sense if dimensions were able to tell whether the associated geometry was still visible or not, and then decide if they should display?

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:10:07 GMT

Peter wrote:
Just having the ability to assign a single skin composite as a finish would certainly help matters especially if you have to use discrete pieces of single skin wall and slab to fill in various gaps in the modelling.

As I think you pointed out earlier, you can do this with profiled walls. Slightly inconvenient but functionally equivalent. Just make sure the source profile is not taller than the shortest wall you need to make.

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:33:11 GMT

I'll bear that in mind. Luckily, I haven't had to use this function in anger yet - I'm just investigating the possibilities and noting the shortcomings so they don't come back to bite me in the future!

Thanks for the tips!

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:32:27 GMT

Peter wrote:
Out of interest, how would you turn off the doors and windows in sections and elevations - the 'Filter Elements in 3d' settings have no effect in these views. I presume the main purpose of this setting is for displaying information for the structural engineers, but why would they need to see the door and window frames? Surely 'core only' should only display just the core elements and nothing else?

Strange, I would have dared to say this setting affected S/E, but apparently it doesn't.

Now that we have Global Library Settings in the Model View Options Combinations Dialog, I would create a setting there to be able to turn off the 3D of Doors/Windows. Then the GDL of these Doors/Window would have to be modified. On could use the GLOB_CONTEXT global variable to check whether we are in Section/Elevation/Interior Elevation Viewpoint.
Then we could use the GLOB_STRUCTURE_DISPLAY global variable to check the partial structure display setting. Then just end the 3D Script when conditions are met.

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:33:52 GMT

Peter wrote:
I also find it disconcerting that dimensions are associated with the partial structure setting that was activated when the dimension was placed, and acts like a secondary layer system - even if the object being dimensioned has no partial structure settings like a simple uniform fill slab. I'm not sure I like this behaviour. Would it make more sense if dimensions were able to tell whether the associated geometry was still visible or not, and then decide if they should display?

Well, I am not completely happy with this either because this can result in double dimensioning.

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:52:25 GMT

Peter wrote:
Out of interest, how would you turn off the doors and windows in sections and elevations - the 'Filter Elements in 3d' settings have no effect in these views. I presume the main purpose of this setting is for displaying information for the structural engineers, but why would they need to see the door and window frames? Surely 'core only' should only display just the core elements and nothing else?

OK, I asked the developers at GS about this.
And I feel a bit stupid now for not knowing this:
Since AC12 you can go to the Model View Options Dialog and if you select the Show Openings Only radio button, it will affect the display of Doors/Windows in S/E/IE viewpoints too, not only on Floor Plan.
So it can be achieved.
So this setting affect both Floor Plan and S/E/IE viewpoints.
For 3D, you have the Filter Elements in 3D Dialog.

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 14:25:25 GMT

Many thanks for enquiring about the extra information Laszlo. It's very useful to know!

(And my apologies for not thanking you sooner. )

Re: Partial Structure Display Questions.

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 16:13:09 GMT

You are welcome.