topic Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it? in Licensing

ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 May 2023 16:19:19 GMT

I know this will most likely become a bit of debate but I think it is a general concern for students - at least at my University in Scotland, UK.

I have been using ArchiCAD for two years now and love it (even though there are always small niggles, like with everything - and in time I will learn ways round them). I have only used AutoCAD (what appears to have the monopoly) once, and so do not have an opinion on it.

The problem is that, (at least in the UK), practices always seem to use AutoCAD and want people who can use AutoCAD. In university we have had zero training on AutoCAD (and very little on ArchiCAD - it is self taught really). I have no problems learning new packages - I enjoy it really, however, there are many who people are not as quick to pick-up new programs.

So my question, after all that, is ... how popular do you find ArchiCAD is in practices in your country and your general area of the world?

I assume it is becoming more popular

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Chazz — Fri, 11 May 2007 14:39:51 GMT

As I've noted elsewhere on this forum, one metric that is easier to obtain and potentially more meaningful to someone locally is the the number of want ads. If I type ArchiCAD into my local Craigslist (a large site with want ads localized all over the world) I get only 11 hits. Revit will give you twice that number. Autocad will be in the hundreds.

This is worrisome because in my unscientific spot checks, ArchiCAD and Revit used to be about even (and before that, AC was way out front). Regardless who is selling more seats, Revit is clearly wining in the hiring war in my area. Eventually, universities will see this and begin training in Revit at the exclusion of ArchiCAD. That will be the beginning of the end.

Still, to address your post: Autocad will be dominant for a long time to come but any firm worth working for will see that that BIM is the future. There are undeniable opportunities for candidates who can lead firms in the BIM direction, regardless the package.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Laura Yanoviak — Fri, 11 May 2007 15:23:05 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Autocad will be dominant for a long time to come but any firm worth working for will see that that BIM is the future. There are undeniable opportunities for candidates who can lead firms in the BIM direction, regardless the package.

I agree. Most firms in my area are using BIM to some degree, so learning AC vs. Revit pretty much comes down to which firm you want to work for. Software knowledge is a plus, although it's typically assumed that someone coming out of school won't have much experience there, so it doesn't weigh heavily (compared to other abilities) on a resume. Honestly, knowledge of PhotoShop and SketchUp probably carries more clout than CAD software (again, for someone coming out of school). This has been my experience in the US.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Chazz — Fri, 11 May 2007 18:04:06 GMT

Interesting.

Laura, I notice you're in Denver --where I see Revit is beating ArchiCAD 13 to 1 in the CraigsList hiring game. Ouch!

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Richard Morrison — Fri, 11 May 2007 19:00:32 GMT

If you actually read the content of the listings, it's almost always "AutoCAD required, knowledge of Revit a plus". You get the sense that Revit might be used for 3D, but not as the main production engine in the office. There are still very few offices that seem to use Revit exclusively in the same way that an Archicad office usually does.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Laura Yanoviak — Fri, 11 May 2007 19:21:32 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Interesting.

Laura, I notice you're in Denver --where I see Revit is beating ArchiCAD 13 to 1 in the CraigsList hiring game. Ouch!

I know of 2 medium/large (30-60 staff) architecture firms in Denver (of course, there could be more) who have implemented Revit (i.e. are moving away from AutoCAD) -- and I know of maybe a dozen who are "using" Revit (i.e. playing with it, not sure of this whole "BIM thing", got the software for free when they upgraded AutoCAD). The major structural firms are working with Revit, but I hear a lot of frustrations with the software from that sector, and I believe they use it for modeling and calculations, but still resort to AutoCAD for documentation.

I know of 4 medium/large firms in Denver implementing ArchiCAD.

Now, this is sort-of a biased sampling, restricted to my professional circle, but it seems to me that firms that are truely committed to BIM have selected ArchiCAD.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Chazz — Fri, 11 May 2007 20:32:03 GMT

Richard wrote:
If you actually read the content of the listings...you get the sense that Revit might be used for 3D, but not as the main production engine...

It's also true that many of the ads are from for Struct or MEP houses rather than architecture firms.

I'm not sure if any of that matters. It's not about now, it's about 5 years from now. If all these places are experimenting with Revit or deploying it in phases, it is only a question of time before it becomes their dominant tool and the market leader. As the struct and MEP guys get into BIM there will be pressures on the the architects to do the same and visa-versa. It's a brilliant, viral feedback loop.

The ultimate tactical move in Autodesks favor is it's ability to leverage its AutoCAD hegemony by binding upgrades to Revit (ie Revit for $200 more). This is a challenge that GS/Nemetschek simply cannot answer.

It would be one thing if ArchiCAD was a clearly superior product (it's not) or if GS/Nemetschek had a superior development effort (they don't) or if the company had a better marketing machine and sales network (Archi-what?) or maybe that they had a superior vision and trajectory (quite the opposite). About the only thing you can say for ArchiCAD is that it's cross platform and that, at the end of the day, it's a real pain to switch. That's not much of a strategy for going up against a company like Autodesk.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Laura Yanoviak — Fri, 11 May 2007 21:27:28 GMT

Chazz wrote:
It's not about now, it's about 5 years from now. If all these places are experimenting with Revit or deploying it in phases, it is only a question of time before it becomes their dominant tool and the market leader. As the struct and MEP guys get into BIM there will be pressures on the the architects to do the same and visa-versa. It's a brilliant, viral feedback loop.

I still think it could go either way -- a know a few firms that are pretty disenfranchised with Revit, and they could very well swing to AC, or back to ACAD (depending on their dedication to BIM). The aggressive marketing by AutoDesk (I've heard from more than one Revit customer that they feel like they were lied to) may just backfire.

Chazz wrote:
It would be one thing if ArchiCAD was a clearly superior product (it's not)...

OK, maybe not "clearly" superior, but superior none-the-less.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Chazz — Fri, 11 May 2007 22:04:40 GMT

Laura wrote:
OK, maybe not "clearly" superior, but superior none-the-less.

Agreed. However, this is only a _now_ argument. We must remember that 5-7 years ago there was simply nothing on the landscape that could compete with ArchiCAD. That lead and advantage has been completely squandered with timid half-step upgrades such as AC9 & 11 or complete acid-party abortions like AC 8. What is left is a mishmash of creaky legacy code on top of more modern, but still visionless, work. It's a disaster. 5 years from now Revit will be Autodesks InDesign while Archicad will be the occasionally-used, mostly forgotten QuarkXPress.

Am I the only one paying attention or did I just skip my Zoloft this morning?

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Fri, 11 May 2007 22:36:40 GMT

Chazz wrote:
........ As the struct and MEP guys get into BIM there will be pressures on the the architects to do the same and visa-versa. It's a brilliant, viral feedback loop.

I would like to disagree with all your are saying but this logic is a killer AC. I not a happy AC user in 5 years!
Joseph

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 May 2007 10:07:10 GMT

So, with all AutoDesk's purchasing over the last year - do you think they'll dip their toes into the mac market (which is always getting bigger, and most true graphics people/designers prefer using macs). And if so - will that be the death of ArchiCAD?

When I get a new mac after my year out in practice (intel one woohoo) I will have to try Revit - that is if the practice I go to doesn't already use it

I do like that ArchiCAD is free for students because no student can afford a legal copy of AutoCAD

Another thing I've noticed is a few small practices using cracked copies of AutoCAD - even they can't afford AutoDesk prices.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Chazz — Tue, 15 May 2007 22:05:58 GMT

Autodesk did release a version of AutoCad for the Mac way back at version 11 (I think). It was another time when the Apple was in a state of ascendancy.

The release was an unmitigated disaster. I went to the roll-out and it was the most pathetic event I ever witnesed. I doubt you will see Autodesk try that again until all the players involved in the last Autocad-on-Apple debacle are dead or have left the company. Still, you never know. If nothing else a version of Revit on OSX would be the swiftest way to eliminate GS as a competitor.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 03:03:54 GMT

Chazz wrote:
5 years from now Revit will be Autodesks InDesign while Archicad will be the occasionally-used, mostly forgotten QuarkXPress.

I have to agree on this with autodesk very aggressive marketing, Revit will most likely going to dominate the BIM race. Their growth is just enormous have a look at this link http://aec.cadalyst.com/aec/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=425605

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Dwight — Wed, 16 May 2007 05:14:32 GMT

So what? Why lament?

Who knows anything about five years from now?

Not only does Revit have lots of money to market, but also lots of money to get way better. That is a good thing. It might deserve our custom soon.

And in five years, or less, will it matter: PC or mac? PC makers will all be bankrupt with all the switching-over to mac that is happening now. That is a good thing, too.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Link — Wed, 16 May 2007 06:36:08 GMT

I wonder how many of those copies of Revit were actually sold, and how many were given away?

I never trust AutoDesk marketing or figures.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Dwight — Wed, 16 May 2007 06:51:14 GMT

And nevermind sold or given away.
How about copies actually used?

The real test of a software is how many users bother to upgrade - this tells you about actual use and is always just a tiny fraction of the sales figure....

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Wed, 16 May 2007 08:15:50 GMT

Our school uses archicad, I like archicad however what I don't like is that long time users of archicad seem to be very defensive if the competition is doing well.

For me this is sad, instead of keep on depending GS users should act together and ask them for much more so that archicad can compete with revit's user base. One way is by implementing much more effective tools that will blow away the competition, have MEP and structural flavor of archicad. This way archicad will temp revit users to jump ship. Speaking o of convert I did a research on this by reading forum how many revit user's have actually converted into archicad and vice versa. Its kinda very few that really go for archicad and there are much more archicad users that are now doing testimonial in the augi revit forum.

It's a clear fact as what Chazz posted that even firms hiring require revit skills and its beating archicad. Why so defensive? I would rather let GS be aware of this and do something for the good of its usersbase and try to establish that archicad is really far more than revit. Otherwise, only hardcore archicad users will stay and the rest of the world will be using revit.

Peace.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

stefan — Wed, 16 May 2007 12:54:27 GMT

In Belgium practices I assume it to be:
1 = AutoCAD
2 = VectorWorks
3 = the rest (including MicroStation, some ArchiCAD, some Revit and some others... but in smaller amounts)

I have been to a meeting of CAAD teachers in our region, organized by one of the Autodesk-dealers, and all major architectural schools (7 or so) use AutoCAD or Revit. Our school teaches AutoCAD but I have introduced SketchUp, ArchiCAD and Artlantis in the last few years. But we still teach the basics of AutoCAD 2D and some 3D.

Apart from AutoCAD and some Revit use, schools are also teaching more and more SketchUp, VIZ and Rhino. Only one of the schools was actively using VectorWorks and only we were using ArchiCAD.

Forget the discussion on Macs, lets keep this thread a bit focused...

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 May 2007 01:20:39 GMT

razorback wrote:
For me this is sad, instead of keep on depending GS users should act together and ask them for much more so that archicad can compete with revit's user base. One way is by implementing much more effective tools that will blow away the competition, have MEP and structural flavor of archicad. This way archicad will temp revit users to jump ship....

...I would rather let GS be aware of this and do something for the good of its usersbase and try to establish that archicad is really far more than revit. Otherwise, only hardcore archicad users will stay and the rest of the world will be using revit.

Unfortunately I think GS is very much aware of its weakened market position already.
The programmers can only do so much with the budget and time given. I’m sure they would love to include all sorts of wondrous features and are technically capable of doing so given enough time. Autodesk can afford to throw more money and more programmers at the problem and they will develop a vastly superior product sooner. No doubt about it. There isn't much GS can do, they have been financially out-gunned.

Some people may say this is a good thing for us, and it will be for a while, until all the competitors are wiped out (which wont be long) then the rate of progress tails off and innovation is stifled, which isn’t such a good thing.

I think that one of the things going for GS at the moment is simply who they are. They are not a faceless American corporation. They need to be the friendly face of BIM! I think if GS can offer a product that is more elegant, simple to use and works 100% of the time, it will be enough to draw people back to them even though the product may not be as powerful or feature rich.

I’m not sure that the move to yearly releases will help things either. I don’t expect many people actually ‘want’ to keep upgrading their software every 12 months. It’s a hassle and unproductive to keep relearning a new piece of softwares ‘quirks’ and deal with the 99% finished features in exchange for a couple of new buttons. If GS offered a rock solid package that worked perfectly but was only overhauled every couple of years I think it could be more successful. Don’t try to compete at Autodesks level.

Sorry, wandered slightly off topic!
Cheers,
Pete.

Re: ArchiCAD Popularity? (Worldwide) How widely used is it?

Anonymous — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:35:14 GMT

well i was thinking when u say that just because Autodesk can throw money and more programmers so for sure they will have a superior program?..
that makes sense but life has no sense..
i mean before Autodesk having Revit ..they tried to develope ADT... with all the money and all support.but hey had nothing...

i am not saying that Revit is bad or something.. but its just another solution..

i mean look at we've got in AC11 , its a new way of thinking linking 2D and 3D.. i mean no one expected that..we were all thinking with "sense " that we will have improvements in BIM tools...

but they came with a brilliant Idea...

here mony is not involved..