topic Re: Losing license with automatic windows update in Licensing

Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 09:14:02 GMT

It is very unfortunate that ArchiCad crashes with windows automatic updates. This has happened a second time to me. As a practice Microsoft sends updates automatically to improve the performance of the operating system and it never clashes with any of the software for the licences. This is a faultline that exists with Archicad.

In India the dealer is asking money to repair the lost license for which I am not responsible. Please let me know whom should I contact in Archicad.

Following are the excerpts fron the recent communication with the dealer:

As per the condition described, I guess your license has been destroyed due to OS update.

It is mandatory to upload license in GS License Tool Manager, whenever you are formatting the system or updating the OS.

As this is a software key, the license gets downloaded to Hardware of the system. And upon formatting or OS Update there is a process in which hardware is considered and due to the same the Key also gets deleted/Destroyed.

To revive it, I am sending a Destroyed key form. Kindly fill it up and our accounts team will contact you for the pricing of new key.

After the payment is processed your key will be allotted to you within a day or two.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Lingwisyer — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 09:38:16 GMT

Generally in business, you would not simply update your computer, especially non-essential updates when they come out as it is not uncommon for there to be a few minor faults some of which might cause issues with certain programs which could result in the loss of thousands of dollars.

Though your description of your issue verse the dealers interpretation seems quite different. A program crashing is very different to a licence breaking...

You mention AC crashing, then you mention the AC licence manager clashing with Windows... which is it?

IF it is AC, when is it crashing? Do you get an error message / report? If so, have you forwarded that to your dealer or if you are on a SSA, support? Have you tried launching AC without a licence attached?

OR, when does the licence manager crassh? Do you get a error message when the licence manager crashes?

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 01:49:29 GMT

This reminded me, I had a software key on my laptop which broke the other day.

Short story is the hard drive was swapped to another laptop, so same operating system but different hardware.

I just checked the License Manager and it was showing the SW licence was damaged and needed to be uploaded for repair.

Fortunately I was able to upload it and it is now again available for me.

Not quite the same situation as you with upgrading your Operating System.

But I was wondering if you can just go to Licenses Manager and upload the license back to the pool?

Barry.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 04:02:30 GMT

Hi Lingwisyer,

Thanks for your response. I think the supplier of the software has not clarified it to the point I raised.

For any person working on a software on the Windows operating system always gets an update periodically from windows, which appears only while opening and closing of windows (mostly while closing). As end users we are always in favour of updating it as it gives advantages in terms of operating speed / removal of bugs / improving efficiency of various programmes. And this may happen many many times in future. Am I going to pay for everytime it happens?

In view of the above we cannot be held responsible for loss of license as happened to me for automatic windows update. It is the faultline that exists with the software that has not been taken care of. Hence they cannot charge me for giving back my license which I have paid for. If it would have been a hardware license, it may not have happened and if I lose the physical hardware key, certainly I will pay for it. However, for some other reasons if the software developer has replaced hardware with some faulty software, the end user cannot be held responsible.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 04:08:12 GMT

Hi Barry,

The license manager tool says

I signed in & this is the message I get.

Kindly advise.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 04:25:49 GMT

Finally this is the screen I got

What to do?

Regards,

Anirban Das

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 04:30:18 GMT

This is the latest reply from the supplier.... Shall I compare it with a car accident?? This is ridiculous!!

"When you upload the license it is stored in Cloud and when you download it goes to hardware of the system.

So when you update the OS or Format the system, the Software key gets erased.

As reference from earlier tickets #368 and #205 raised by you. We conveyed you to upload the License whenever you have OS update and it is practice followed incase of OS update or System Format.

About hardware key, we can say as the technology evolves there are changes in the product. Earlier people used telephones which restricted them to stay at a place to have a Call. Whereas today we use mobiles, which allows us to have a Call from anywhere.

Similarly this hardware key is evolved to software key which allows us to have License in any part of the world.

For Eg. If a person is travelling to London from India and forgets to get his Archicad License. In this scenario if he has hardware key which is left in his Office in India, he won't be able to work on that license.

Whereas if he has Software key, he can tell anyone from his office to upload the key and he can download it in the system available to him and continue his work in London.

Coming back to Destroyed key, If you were on SSA/FORWARD i.e. maintenance program your key could have been retrieved for free as it is one of the benefit to be on SSA/FORWARD.

It is like an Insurance of Car, if the Cars gets wrecked in an Accident and insurance is expired or not renewed, you will need to pay the amount of Damage occurred whereas having Insurance can help you recover the damage for free.

In your case it is the same, you are on Archicad 21 and the SSA/FORWARD is not renewed. Hence it is needed to pay for replacement of destroyed software key"

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 05:19:17 GMT

That just shows that the last activity for that license was to download it to you computer on 15/2 - which you already know you did.

Unfortunately it won't help you get the license back.

Barry.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 05:36:54 GMT

I can't say for sure if the Windows update was the cause of the problem or not.

I would suspect that minor automatic updates would not be a problem, otherwise I am sure there would be many people hear complaining they have lost their license, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Upgrading the OS from Windows 10 to 11 might be another matter.

I don't really know though as I actually have a hardware key.

The software key I mentioned before was just a spare old version license that automatically downloaded when I forgot my hardware key.

I forgot it had even happened until I came upon this post.

It depends on how desperate you are, but maybe you could try rolling back your Windows update back to what it was before.

Don't ask me how or if this will work as I am not much of an IT expert, but I believe you can roll back updates in the system settings (that might depend on how you machine was set up and if it allows for this).

Otherwise I think you are at the mercy of the supplier.

Do you have any documentation from when you bought the license that explains how to download the license and does it say you must upload it back to the pool before upgrading the OS?

If so, you have now leg to stand on.

If not, then depending on how much you want to fight with the supplier, you can say you were never informed.

Can they say that they informed you of this problem?

I guess this is a problem with the software licenses when you let the SSA lapse.

You also lose the support from the supplier unless you want to pay for it.

At least with a hardware key, you are not in trouble unless you lose or break the key.

Barry.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Sat, 08 Jul 2023 08:18:25 GMT

Let's make it very simple.....

If it was subscription based software, I don't mind paying for SSA as is could be a part of the areement. When I bought a perpetual license and can install / uninstall / reinstall myself, what is the role of SSA?

Taking support from SSA is a choice. But losing the key due to faulty software interface with windows cannot be ignored.

I may walk with a stick holding the hand of SSA (by choice). But if the stick breaks due to its faulty design, who is responsible?

Anirban

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Lingwisyer — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 01:21:19 GMT

How would you prove that is was the licence manager software that was responsible and not Windows, or something elses?

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Barry Kelly — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 01:35:26 GMT

The SSA/Forward agreements are a bit like subscription, but you buy the perpetual license outright and then pay a yearly fee for support.

That support may include actually talking to someone on the phone or via a support ticketing system, additional objects and materials (possibly even add-ons), future version upgrades, and insurance on the license should you lose it for any reason.

Stop paying the support fee and you still have the license (if you don't lose it), but no upgrades or support or insurance.

Subscription (I don't have), I am unsure if it includes the support, upgrades, license insurance - but I assume it would.

So you don't have an initial cost for the license, but you would pay more in a monthly/yearly fee than SSA/Forward support.

Stop paying the fee and you have nothing, not even the license, you will at best be able to work in Demo mode (no saving/printing).

Barry.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Jp1138 — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 07:37:48 GMT

I think many of these problems could be resolved if software licenses could be autouploaded after use, or even better, just checked online on start of the program without having to download anything. There should be some flexibility in case there´s a connection loss and an option to download the licenses in case you have connection problems or pretend to work without internet access.

The fact you have to pay to recover a software license as if you were buying a usb or something just seems absurd to me 🙄

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 15:07:01 GMT

Sorry to accept your argument.

Instead of justifying the SSA to be paid, you should look into the matter so that the bug is removed. Or make this service free. There are hundreds of sofwares made by renowned companies like Adobe, Corel Corporation, Autodesk etc where automatic windows updates do not make the software lose its license.

License is a code which communicates with the server of the software provider. Why that code gets changed everytime when it is loaded by the SSA?? It does not happen with the companies I mentioned above.

I would expect that Graphisoft should issue me a fresh license (as I had purchased it) and it is lost for the bug that exists in the software and must start working on removing the bug at the earliest.

This attitude will certainly affect your sales in India as architects community is very well connected here.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Jp1138 — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 17:24:50 GMT

I suppose you are answering to me by mistake, as I completely agree with you that restoring a software license due to any kind of glitch in the home computer should always be free.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 05:40:27 GMT

Looks like Graphisoft doesn't bother about the discussions in this forum. Why are they not responding? Is there any way to reach them??

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Barry Kelly — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 07:06:24 GMT

You have contacted your local Archicad support and they have given you a response.

Whether you agree with that response is up to you.

This really has nothing to do with the people at head office running and contributing to this forum.

They aren't your local distributor.

If you don't agree, argue the point with them some more, asking them to point out the documentation where it informed you to return your software license to the pool before undertaking any automatic Windows system updates.

But it seems they have informed you of this before as you said in a previous post they wrote this to you ...

As reference from earlier tickets #368 and #205 raised by you. We conveyed you to upload the License whenever you have OS update and it is practice followed incase of OS update or System Format.

As they seem to have instructed you before of this exact situation, I think you will be stuck paying the fee.

But if you are nice to them and it has not happened before and you promise it won't happen again, who knows, they may reduce or waive the fee.

Barry.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 08:44:36 GMT

At the mercy of the dealer?? Dealer is a trader only. The software company is responsible for all these. And such things may happen again and again as windows updates are unpredictable & while sutting down you may click the update & shut down, as I did without any thought in my mind and I should go on paying the dealer for years together. This is nonsense. Please fix the bug first.

I think this is to be highlighted to our architects community.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Barry Kelly — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 09:03:37 GMT

@Anirban Das wrote:

Please fix the bug first.

But is it a bug?

Can I ask all reading, have any of you had an issue with an automatic windows update that has caused you to lose your software license?

I am curious to know because I don't recall any post here about it (I may be wrong).

This would be a major issue if it is the case.

I can understand someone opting to install an OS system version update potentially being a problem.

But that is something you opt to do, it won't happen automatically.

Barry.

Re: Losing license with automatic windows update

Anirban Das — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 09:52:39 GMT

Good question. One way you accept that unless it is uploaded to the server, the license gets lost with windows update. Yes, this is the bug.

If its not a bug then why the same thing doesnt happen with Adobe, Autodesk, Corel etc. Firstly please accept that this needs to be rectified and advise the seller not to charge for it. Sellers can ask money for training and other supports but not for such things where I can use the software without bothering for any updates in the same release of operating system.

Infact, there are many outdated softwares which was working on windows 8 and does not work on windows 10. But here it is just a simple update on the same release of windows !!