topic Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features in Licensing

Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

MDunkin — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 20:27:24 GMT

As many of us are being transitioned off perpetual licenses, I discovered today that PARAM-O and the Python Palette are no longer accessible without an active SSA membership. Graphisoft, this makes the decision for our studio to stay or return to Revit much easier.

We’ve purchased 11 licenses and consistently maintained our SSA membership since joining with version 24, now on version 28. Nowhere in any online resources or documentation does it state that certain features can be deactivated at will.

This is extremely disappointing.

Operating system used: Mac Intel-based

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 17:38:52 GMT

I'm confused about the "many of us are being transitioned off perpetual licenses".... which implies something beyond your control is doing the transitioning ("being transitioned"). Moving to subscription is a choice... how was your choice taken away?

Ending SSA is a different story. I guess I didn't realize that PARAM-O and Python were SSA-only features. Are you saying that they are not included in Subscription? Or are you saying that you have canceled your SSA and yet have not switched to subscription (which means that you are indeed still on a perpetual license)?

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

MDunkin — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:17:20 GMT

The choice is to migrate to a subscription model now with a discount or pay two more years of maintenance on our perpteuals until version 30, at that point you are stuck at version 30 unless you migrate to the full subscription model. Seems more like an ultimatum than a choice.

I’m 99% sure those features are included in the new subscription model, but my point is we’ve always had access to them under our perpetual license.

We’re currently working with Graphisoft to decide whether to migrate to the subscription model, stay perpetual until version 30, or switch back to Revit. In short, we haven’t paid for our 2025 maintenance yet because we’re sorting out the details and potential discounts for early migration to subscription, but this development is making me rethink migrating to their subscription model. Once you're in a subscription you are at the whim of GS and seems like they are already playing games by blocking access to tools.

I can't even log in to 24 and use those tools. I have paid for my maintenance on versions 24-28 I should at least have access to them within those versions.

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 20:57:28 GMT

They are not taking anything away that you paid for… if you have not paid your SSA/ArchiPlus fee. This page:

https://graphisoft.com/downloads/param-o/

states that PARAM-O is only for SSA/Forward customers (but no doubt subscribers too). It is not part of the perpetual license. Surprising to me, but I’ve always been in SSA so your pain reminded all of us of that.

Your comment on earlier versions having maintenance “paid for”. Not. SSA is an annual thing covering all versions. You never have permanent support without continuing fees or subscription.

The financial choice to switch to subscription is another story. I would have hoped that your reseller would prorate your SSA fee to the date of switch.

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

MDunkin — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 20:40:16 GMT

We don’t have a reseller—we work directly with Graphisoft, which brings its own challenges. Our former GS regional sales rep referred to the SSA/ArchiPlus fee as “maintenance,” and we’ve always paid it. Now we’re stuck in limbo, waiting for Graphisoft to finalize their three-year discount and figure out how to accept our payment.

They can keep Param-o, but we rely heavily on Python. So out of all the "experimental features" in the software they block you from using 1 of them without an active SSA/ArchiPlus...?

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 20 Jan 2025 21:00:13 GMT

Technically, Graphisoft North America is your reseller. Anyway, I think you have a very legitimate complaint about Python no longer working for you as this page…

https://graphisoft.com/downloads/python/

makes no mention of Python requiring SSA to work, unlike the PARAM-O page.

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

MinhNguyen — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 04:34:07 GMT

Cross-post from the other thread to raise awareness: some features are part of the SSA/Forward agreement. I never handled the contract so I'm also not aware of this until today:

https://graphisoft.com/forward/

https://graphisoft.com/legal/forward-services-and-benefits/int (point 2.9)

It might have been there in the terms of sales all along, we just never bother to read

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

Mathias Jonathan — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:26:24 GMT

The python interface is SSA, not the python connection. You can use scripts without the interface, but it is less "user friendly"

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

MinhNguyen — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:56:18 GMT

hmm, interesting. I know that you can run the script via CMD without the palette, but does Python API include the whole functionality of the feature? Because the API is what written as available via Forward contract, not just the palette. I could be wrong though as the scripts might be functional regardless of the contract validity.

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

laembert — Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:33:11 GMT

Let's talk in advance and very seriously how crippled our last version 30 will be. What else we have? Maxon Redshift render? Advanced material library? Library part maker? Python? Paramo?

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

Jody S Keppers — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 18:37:35 GMT

I sent a request in to Graphisoft for information about the transition. As with MDunkin, I have only dealt directly with Graphisoft for the last 12 years or more. I have received no response whatsoever.

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 21:51:06 GMT

The "Forward" page lists all the features and services that are part of SSA/Forward:

https://graphisoft.com/forward/

So, if you do not have/do not renew your SSA/Forward, these features/services will not be available.

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 23 Jan 2025 22:56:57 GMT

@Laszlo Nagy wrote:

The "Forward" page lists all the features and services that are part of SSA/Forward:

https://graphisoft.com/forward/

So, if you do not have/do not renew your SSA/Forward, these features/services will not be available.

Great link to a summary of provided features. But, still, it seems unfortunate that individual pages on the web site are inconsistent… for example the links I provided earlier that show that the PARAM-O page says that it is a SSA feature, yet the Python page does not. Such inconsistency makes it more frustrating for a customer who finds a feature stops working to realize why… as going to the feature page is a more likely first step than thinking of looking for the Forward page I think.

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 24 Jan 2025 07:06:59 GMT

I will inform GS HQ about these.

Re: New Subscription Model and Loss of Features

MDunkin — Tue, 28 Jan 2025 14:52:59 GMT

This is an actual response we received yesterday from our new GS account manager.

" It was nice to talk with Briana last week. We have not forgotten about you. You are all set to move into the subscription deal we talked about last year. We are still updating our subscription portal for 2025 and once it is up and running, we will give you all the details on how to sign up. I will stay in touch. "

Re: Loss of Features with expired SSA/Forward

bryanc85 — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 22:03:40 GMT

It's not so much a forced situation but more like a hostage situation. If you don't "upgrade" to a subscription license and give up your perpetual license, you get penalized financially over the long term to keep support. It's a financial incentive to push people away from products they have, even though they've been loyal customers. A money-grab is a money-grab, no other way to call it.

So we decided to switch our licenses as we were growing the company (apparently at the worst time to be an ArchiCad-based firm). After canceling our old BIMcloud SaaS, and changing to the subscription license under duress, we were given an extension since they can't get us our two new licenses to replace the perpetual onces. On top of that, the new User new can't access our old BIMCloud SaaS and they can't do anything for us except say sorry, we took your money but f*** you. So now we have a new hire, sitting at a desk, doing solo projects, when we've paid all this money for a bad service that has no timeline of being fixed.

Revit is looking more enticing by the day. And hey, I could actually just hire people at that point! So many incentives to not be an Archicad user anymore with this bungled money-grab rollout.