topic Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-On in Parametric design

Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-On

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 11 May 2023 09:12:39 GMT

There is a Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD Bidirectional "real-time" Connection Add-On coming:

http://www.shoegnome.com/2015/09/15/rhino-grasshopper-archicad-connection-public-beta/

Sign up for the public beta:

http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/rhino-grasshopper/

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:28:59 GMT

Just wanted to congratulate GS for a supersmart move!!!

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 22:16:02 GMT

Olivier wrote:
Just wanted to congratulate GS for a supersmart move!!!

How is it smart? As near as I can tell, the ArchiCAD add-on will convert a .3dm into a .gsm, and in doing so you can control the poly count to make it as smooth as you can. However, unless the imported object has smoother curves and surfaces than we can make in ArchiCAD with out it, what is the advantage? Rhino already generates a number of 3d file formats that we an import into ArchiCAD. .3ds, .obj, .skp, etc...

And ArchiCAD can already export 3d files that can be opened/imported into Rhino.

All I can see as being anything new is that we can open .3dm files directly, and I do like the option for controlling the poly count. I am always looking for ways to make curves and surfaces smoother in ArchiCAD.

Does this add-on for Rhino actually give us smoother curves and smoother rounded surfaces in ArchiCAD that we can get with out it ?

I have been testing this add-on and it seems to me that I can get much smoother results, however, I am not sure this is from the add-on or just tapping into what ArchiCAD can already do. ? Using base molding for a test, I can get smoother curves with a .gsm than for the .3dm

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 22:48:08 GMT

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:34:20 GMT

Steve wrote:
How is it smart?

If you have seen the webinar you know that ARCHICAD will now have a live bidirectional connection to the best freeform modeling application and visual scripting application, so they do not have to develop their own solution from scratch. That I think is a smart move. ARCHICAD users will be able to take advantage of all the development effort put into Rhino and Grasshopper to improve their BIM workflow. Architects currently using Rhino may decide to take up ARCHICAD to improve their BIM workflow.

What you are talking about is another thing: the accuracy of geometry coming from Rhino to ARCHICAD. I will report that issue to GRAPHISOFT.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Fri, 09 Oct 2015 00:00:02 GMT

I missed the seminar. I have Rhino5, Grasshopper, .3dm add-on for ArchiCAD, Maxwell for Rhino... I have been playing with it for a while, watched some videos, etc..

I still have no idea how Grasshopper would be useful to ArchiCAD users.
It looks to me like some sort of .gdl style code scripting tools with a few graphics to help keep track of the codes being applied to various elements. Not something that seems very useful to an ArchiCAD users.

What exactly do you mean by bidirectional? That could mean simply having a file format that both programs can convert to something they can process. We could already do that with a .3ds, .obj, and some others.

What is the this noting more than an add-on that lets you save an ArchiCAD file as .3dm, and convert .3dm files to .gsm files ? That is relatively unimportant unless it can do something better than we could already do this with a .3ds or .obj file.

I would like it if someone can cut to the chase about this bidirectional connection between ArchiCAD and Rhino is so I don't have to take the time to figure it out myself.

Attached is a picture of come Grasshopper graphic representation of the codes to be applied to various elements. Does that look like something you want to do ? This is programmer candy, not modeling tools. Unless I am not understanding what this is. ??

I would like to have in this is the ability to get things modeled in Rhino into ArchiCAD that are better elements than what I can model in ArchiCAD.
I would also like to get things modeled with ArchiCAD into Rhino to enhance the quality of what I can model with ArchiCAD.

If there is no advantage in this over doing it with one of the 3D file formats we already have available - I will lose interest real fast.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 09 Oct 2015 00:54:20 GMT

Well, the seminar showed about half a dozen examples where this workflow can be useful. Its basically Algorithmic Design, you can define a lot of geometry by algorithms. It also has randomization, for example for an elevation tiling pattern or coloring pattern randomization.
Also, you can create a lot of free-form stuff much easier in Rhino, then push the geometry to ARCHICAD, like a double-curved roof or shell structure.
Also, if the building is algorithmically defined in the conceptual design stage it can be redefined by adjusting a few variables instead of remodeling the whole thing in ARCHICAD. This is done in Rhino/Grasshopper and the result is pushed to ARCHICAD and converted to native ARCHICAD elements.
BIDIRECTIONAL means that you can also start it by creating geometry in ARCHICAD, then push that data to Rhino and use it as a basis for Algorithmic Design. Then push the result back to ARCHICAD. So you can start the process in either Rhino or ARCHICAD, they update each other with changes made in them.
LIVE means that there is truly a live, real-time connection between Rhino/Grasshopper and ARCHICAD, if both are running; when you change something in one the other also updates based on the changes.

The example you showed in the attachment looks pretty complex. But in most of the cases it can be much simpler than that. Of course the more complex it is the higher level of algorithmic control you have over your design.
Maybe this is not your cup of tee. It is mine, I find this kind of stuff interesting. These tools are also used by huge ARCHICAD client firms like BIG and NIKKEN SEKKEI who find them very useful.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Fri, 09 Oct 2015 02:00:14 GMT

I see - Here is an example of the Grasshopper script and the Model it generates. WOW! This is going to be really cool. It adds a new dimension to working with ArchiCAD. I will keep working with it to see how I might use it for the kind of projects I am working on. Mine are simple geometry for the most part.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Fri, 09 Oct 2015 06:21:51 GMT

This is what I was looking for! https://youtu.be/rS6_Uom7gG0

It is really cool but I am not so sure what I can use it on. I don't get to model project I could use if for yet. Perhaps stairs ? I use a lot of assemblies that are tweaked for different dimensions. Special moldings that need to fit a complex geometry? I wish I needed to model more curvilinear forms and complex geometries.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 12:08:00 GMT

Just today I read that Grasshopper for Mac is coming:

http://discourse.mcneel.com/t/grasshopper-for-mac-available-for-testing/28066

The reason this is important is because when it becomes available as a stable release, the Rhino-Grasshopper-ARCHICAD workflow will become available on both the Windows and the Mac platforms.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:11:49 GMT

the other reason that is important is because Vectorworks already has that.
And their graphical scripting tool is part of the program, not just an add-on for some other program.

https://youtu.be/Z-sTm5Dl8tY

Graphical scripting is certainly going to be a game changer in our industry.
ArchiCAD will have to get a better modeling kernel or they will not be able to
compete with what will very soon be an industry standard.

http://www.grasshopper3d.com/page/architecture-projects

http://api.ning.com/files/4BecdlgEqm7ki8li-VtWp7w0H9Fxfyww4gpEYBXPrsD0X-J9B1AkKBMWGwR3FYvgVvYJyTudtVXVLZ4eYhSedmtttyP5qAqp/NBBJ_HANGZHOU_STADIUM.jpg

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Aaron Bourgoin — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:19:06 GMT

or that Autodesk has Dynamo: what Grasshopper should have been.

Having Grasshopper is great, but Dynamo is the scripting platform to watch.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:43:20 GMT

Dynamo
https://youtu.be/h0Sk1w7xU4Q
https://youtu.be/aLA6iA2S4IA

Graphisoft had better be working on connections for more than just Grasshopper.

Also, I hope they are working on something like this that will be part of ArchiCAD, the way Marionette is part of Vectorworks.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Steve Jepson — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:51:31 GMT

All of this is a futile endeavor for Graphisoft unless they implement a new kind of modeling kernel.

Morph? pfff!

https://youtu.be/Hivnf4CEJVw

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:23:35 GMT

Just out of curiosity: are you guys fully familiar with the capabilities of Marionette, Dynamo and Grasshopper? Do you know which one is the most capable? Do you know that Dynamo is more mature than Grasshopper and not the other way around?
Do you know exactly what Dynamo can (and more importantly, can't) do in Revit? And how it compares to Grasshopper? I would be interested to hear.

(Marionette is a new entry and its graphical scripting capabilities are not yet fully implemented. For example, only Service Pack 2 which came out not long ago started to have nodes that enabled you to create Walls and Slabs and Roofs, but there are still no capabilities at the moment to create a lot of stuff in Vectorworks using Marionette).

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Aaron Bourgoin — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:26:21 GMT

Dynamo was designed to be a superior version of Grasshopper.

Dynamo has been the rage at the last two Autodesk University sessions in Vegas and is a thing of wonder. lots and lots of good info at http://dynamobim.org

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:31:10 GMT

This sounds like marketing stuff which Autodesk is very good at.
I am aware that Dynamo can do a lot of great stuff. But can you tell me specific about which area Dynamo is better than Rhino+Grasshopper? Which Dynamo can do that Grasshopper can't?
I really would like to know. Can you give me any examples?

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Aaron Bourgoin — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:36:05 GMT

Lazlo, start here, start with this guy.

Andreas is a friend and a wizard with this too, and, as a teacher, knows something about smarting his knowledge of the technology. Other material available on Youtube and on the AU websitel: https://prezi.com/jqdljnvns9si/utilising-dynamo-beyond-computational-design/

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 19:29:54 GMT

Aaron wrote:
Dynamo was designed to be a superior version of Grasshopper.

You stated the above. But did it manage to become a superior product? In what regard? Can you tell me examples? Like: Dynamo can do this, Grasshopper can't do that.

Re: Rhino/Grasshopper-ARCHICAD BIDIRECTIONAL Connection Add-

Aaron Bourgoin — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 19:39:18 GMT

Grasshopper is welded to Rhino whose NURBS definition is compatible with most others. so at it's heart, Grasshopper has nowhere to go other than strapping itself to Rhino and it's NURBS definition.

Granted, Dynamo is tied to Revit and it's horrendous under-the-hood architecture, but it goes a long way to making Revit a usable tool.

Grasshopper is adept with geometry primarily whereas Dynamo can be scripted to generate, analyze and audit BIM as well.

As I recall, one of the first things Andreas wrote in Dynamo was a script to assist with his grading of his students' BIM projects.

More recently Dynamo is at work designing structural, mechanical and electrical systems inside buildings.

Unless I'm missing something, the ArchiCAD / RHINO / Grasshopper tool is currently limited to a geometry generator. This is great, but its just the geometry.

Lazlo, this "superior" product thing sounds like a red herring to me. One thing it has going for it is the fact that its is open source and is being built by users. Users built something powerful enough that it dominated the instructional workshops at AU this year.