topic Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house? in Sustainable design

Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Thu, 11 May 2023 08:23:35 GMT

I started playing around a little bit with Ecodesigner.
I was wondering if I can create a totaly zero-CO2 emissions house using Ecodesigner? Is this possible?

Thanks.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:17:12 GMT

You can achieve a zero-emission house with good design, whigh does not depend on the software you use.

Ecodesigner versions older that #15 were pretty much a "green toy": I have not yet seen any validation paper for the calculation results. With old Ecodesigner you can get pretty graphs that will help you sell your design, it won't help you design better. I would not trust those results at all though.

With version #15 (which we have not yet tested personally), you can use Ecodesigner to export data from your Archicad BIM model to the PHPP.

The PHPP (Passivhaus Projektierungspaket) is the calculation spreadsheet developed by the German Passivhaus Institut to design passive houses. (more info on www.passiv.de and on http://passipedia.passiv.de/passipedia_en/start) (PHPP is for sale for about 150€).

I'll be testing ED15 and PHPP in the next couple of months, so if you want, we can keep in touch on this forum.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:53:10 GMT

Thank you for the reply Mr. Bonilauri.
And yes, I would like to stay in contact, and here the results of your testings. Thank you on that.

I still do not own an Archicad 15, and some time will pass until I buy it.

So I was wondering if I could "play" (and I mean literally, as like you said versions before Ecodesigner 15 are toys, and I believe you) a little bit with with Ecodesigner on Archicad 14.

Now, the first thing that crosses my mind, is that I am always gettings some C02 emissions in my final pdf report, even though I want to use only solar panels for gaining the energy. Why is this?

Also, I confused with the fact, that I always get Electricity spending in the final pdf report. Why is that? Why I can not choose solar energy for producing the electricity for my lightning? Or why I can not even choose solar energy for producing the hot water generation?

Take a look at this screenshots:

P.S.

My object will be used ONLY during the summer, so I guess using ONLY the solar energy and making C02 zero emissions is possible in my case. Or am I wrong?

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:03:32 GMT

Ok, I'll try and reply to all your questions.

1) summer use only: it has a huge impact on energy consumption (and CO2 production). I know for sure that you can customize the use of the building on a daily basis, I don't think ED allows you to customize the use of the building on a season basis. This may be the first and biggest problem you have. If you cannot set "summer use only" anywhere, then we are done: ED is of no use for you.

Let's assume you CAN set "summer use only" (so I can answer the other questions):

From the 1st screenshot I can see you picked "solar collectors", which produce hot water, not electricity. They can be integrated with the heating system (I mean, in real life: I don't know if ED allows you to set that). Is there anywhere you can enter PV panels? This is probably the second problem you have.

Apart from that, I cannot tell you more: I only tested ED more than a year ago and read the advanced manual (which you can download somewhere on the Archicad-wiki website, but I cannot find it now). Can you upload any pdf report and more screenshot of your settings? I may be able to help you more.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:16:55 GMT

Here is the guide for Archicad 15 Ecodesigner. I can not find the version for Archicad 14, as that is the one I am using right now.
I read most of the Ecodesigner guide. Although some parts were unclear to me.

I downloaded the data for the location (Reisseck).
Also set the working days as I chose Food service as primary function of the object (my object is a restaurant).
I manually editted the U-value of my Curtain walls - to 0.6 W/m2 K (I got this from prospect).

From the 1st screenshot I can see you picked "solar collectors", which produce hot water, not electricity.

I did not find the "electricity" check box. Only: "space heating, fresh air and hot water generation" are there.

Here are the screenshots for each tab, at ecodesigner.
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20576898/ecodesigner.jpg

Here is the final .pdf file:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20576887/EcoDesigner.pdf

Here is my Archicad .pla file:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20576729/object3.pla

Thank you for the help Mr. Bonilauri

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:15:55 GMT

nedostizni wrote:
I still do not own an Archicad 15, and some time will pass until I buy it.

I think you can download the trial versions of both ArchiCAD 15 and EcoDesigner 15 from myarchicad.com.
Then you can use it for 30 days before it switches to demo mode.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:22:05 GMT

Ok, I had a look at the design and the ED evaluation report.

First of all: if you want the building to be certified as zero-emissions, I think you need a more detailed simulation than what you get with Ecodesigner. I never tried the VIP Energy simulator by Strusoft (which is the same software house that created ED). As far as I know, ED 14 can only export to VIP, but I cannot help you there.

ED is meant to give preliminary evaluation at a very early stage. With ED 15 you can export to PHPP (calculation software for passive houses by the German Passivhaus Institut). In the PHPP, you can calculate the overall consumption of primary energy including all appliances of the building (which is very important for a building like a restaurant). ED 15 is also supposed to export detailed energy consumption to an excel spreadsheet. Any chance you can upgrade to ED 15?

Anyway, you say the building is only going to be used in summer: what do you mean by that?

I'm asking this because it is very important to define which months exactly your building is going to be used.

If you look at the monthly energy balance in your ED report, you'll see that you have transmission heat losses even in mild months like April, May and September. This means that the average mean outdoor temperature is lower than the inside building temperature (and therefore you need to heat the building).

If the building is going to be used only in June, July and August, then you're fine.

If the building has to be used for a longer period, May-September, you need better insulation. You can improve this by having a better average U-value for your walls: now the range is large, from 0,17 W/m2K (almost fit for a Passive House) to 0,77 W/m2K (which is twice as much (bad) as the maximum allowed by law here in Italy). Can you change your walls so that all of them have about 0,17 W/m2K?

In the secon place, "Natural cooling" is takes up the largest part of your summer heat load. I'd be careful here: if you set all your building cooling with natural ventilation, you may reach a tolerable indoor temperature (26°C?), but it does not mean it's going to be pleasant. If the indoor air speed exceeds 2 m/s, it's not going to be pleasant for users (you'll have a draft, sheets of paper will start to fly everywhere etc.).

I noticed that your Archicad model has a "shell" on top of the building that shades most of the glazing. On one side, I think this may cause the indoor to be too dark. On the Ecodesigner side, did you set the building shading correctly to simulate this shell? I mean, I'd set it to "highly shaded" or whatever it is in ED. This may reduce your solar heat gains (and therefore the need for natural cooling) by a large amount.

As last thing, to protect your opaque envelope from overheating in summer (walls, roof slabs), you need to set off and diminish the daily heat wave. This means that for "summer insulation" (my English is weaker here since I've only been calculating this part here in Italy), the U-value does not count as much. The reason for this is that the U-value is based on the steady-state heat transfer (that means: the outdoor is always colder than the indoor), while in summer you need to consider a dynamic heat transfer (which means: during the day, the outdoor is warmer than the inside; during the night it's the other way around). I cannot remember if ED allows you to enter other values for each building material than the lambda value. If so, then you can improve your opaque building envelope to reach these values:

Heat wave offset: minimum 12 hours; (the heat wave will penetrate through the envelope and reach the interior surface in minimum 12 hours)

Heat wave amount: max 12% (the maximum of the heat wave that will reach the interior surface will be maximun 12% of the outdoor heat wave).

Ok, I think this is a lot of information for one post. Just let me know if you need more explainations.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:45:12 GMT

Thank you for the reply.

Ok I will download the Archicad 15 trial, but how much user-friendly is that PHPP excell spreadsheet?

Anyway, you say the building is only going to be used in summer: what do you mean by that?

Building will be located at 2000 meters in the Alps. Thus the object will be opened for tourist only during summer months (June, July, August).

Can you change your walls so that all of them have about 0,17 W/m2K?

Ok, I will do so.

I noticed that your Archicad model has a "shell" on top of the building that shades most of the glazing. On one side, I think this may cause the indoor to be too dark. On the Ecodesigner side, did you set the building shading correctly to simulate this shell? I mean, I'd set it to "highly shaded" or whatever it is in ED. This may reduce your solar heat gains (and therefore the need for natural cooling) by a large amount.

This is what are you talking about? :
http://imageshack.us/f/825/64223869.jpg/

As last thing, to protect your opaque envelope from overheating in summer (walls, roof slabs), you need to set off and diminish the daily heat wave. This means that for "summer insulation" (my English is weaker here since I've only been calculating this part here in Italy), the U-value does not count as much. The reason for this is that the U-value is based on the steady-state heat transfer (that means: the outdoor is always colder than the indoor), while in summer you need to consider a dynamic heat transfer (which means: during the day, the outdoor is warmer than the inside; during the night it's the other way around). I cannot remember if ED allows you to enter other values for each building material than the lambda value. If so, then you can improve your opaque building envelope to reach these values:

Hm, here are the there categories that ED allows to be changed: U-value, Surface type and Infiltration:
http://imageshack.us/f/543/20150695.jpg/

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:23:12 GMT

If you use AC+ED 15, you can export energy data to an excel spreadsheet (as far as I read, I never personally tried it).

The PHPP is a normal excel spreadsheet: it is not user friendly at all of you dont know where to enter your data. It depends what you need the energy evaluation for. If it is just a test, do not try and use the PHPP (it also costs about 150 euros). Furthermore, if your problem is preventing summer overheating, then the PHPP is of little use: it has been developed to design Passive Houses in central Europe. There's one more spreadsheet by the Passivhaus Institut specific for summer, but I'd not use it unless you need to actually build the project.

From the ED report you uploaded and the model you sent, your main issue in summer is building overheating due to the large glazing surface facing south and west.

Now, from the screenshot you sent me (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/64223869.jpg/), ED will evalutate your glazing as totally unshaded, like in the first screenshot I'm sending you. However, if your design includes the shell roof like in my second screenshot, then I would change the shading settings as follows. Remember that when it comes to shading, unfortunately ED does not automatically recognize the building geometry.

I'd set it like this (following your project North settings):

North: not shaded > plain > small
North-east: slightly shaded > plain > small
East: very shaded > plain > (? large canopy)
South-east: shaded > plain > (large canopy?)
South: shaded > plain > (? medium canopy?)
South-west: slightly shaded > plain > small
West: very shaded > plain > (? large canopy?)
North-west: very shaded > plain > (? large canopy?)

I hope ED considers direct sun radiation on the north facade, which does happen in summer and often is a cause of building overheating.

Don't worry about the stuff I wrote about the opaque envelope if ED does not allow you to enter the values I told you (I hope ED 16 or 17 will have such things).

Change those values and re-do the evaluation. Your need for natural cooling is supposed to drop significantly.

Let me know about the results, ok?

Cheers

Enrico

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:24:00 GMT

the second attachment, with the shell roof

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:43:24 GMT

thank you for the help Mr. Boniulari.
The natural cooling did dropped by, like you said. Here is the new pdf:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20600039/EcoDesigner2.pdf

And here is the comparison between the old and new pdf results:
http://imageshack.us/f/228/21227235.jpg/

What I am confused now are two different ways of assigning the shading on facades. One is by assigning the shading to a specific curtain wall (I edited the shading of these curtain walls) and the other is the shading of the general sides of the object. It seems that in the other way, by "shading" they mean the vegetation?

Here is the screenshot of the "first and second way" (in attachment)
Now I am confused about, which one of this two I need to change? Both of them?

Grazie

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:24:25 GMT

I don't know what to say about the two ways to simulate sun shading in ED: it is not derived from the BIM model geometry, so it really depends on the assumptions that were made by Strusoft when they wrote the software. No idea.

Please be careful about your U values for the opaque envelope: they are now worse than the first time. Can you set them to be all around 0,17 W/m2K? This will help cutting down the Transmission heat gains in summer (the pink component in the graph).

What settings are available for the glazings? On the market are now available selective glazings that will allow light into the building but will reflect heat (long and short infra-red). Both Saint-Gobain and Pilkington have these options. Any chance you can customize more value other than the U-value? This can also allow your building to stay cooler during summer.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:33:04 GMT

thank you for the reply.

What do you mean by "opaque envelope"?

What settings are available for the glazings?

I guess "TST - Total Solar Transmission compared to transparent glass (%)" is the option that we are looking for.

But I do not know which value should I take?

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:32:46 GMT

The "building envelope" is made by the elements (walls, windows, slabs, roof etc.) that separates the heated/cooled volume of the building from the outside and from other parts of the buildings (garages, stairwell etc.) that do not require heating/cooling. The envelope is the insulated "box" that keeps your building warm in winter and cool in summer.

The "opaque envelope" means all elements that do not allow sun radiation to reach the inside of the envelope: this means: all walls, roofs and slabs that are not transparent. Normal walls, slabs and roofs belong to the opaque envelope.

Back to the glazing, yes the TST is the parameter we need. Unfortunately, ED only allows you to set the TOTAL solar transmission, without making any difference between light radiation and infra-red radiation.

Anyway, keep in mind that the glazing standard for passive houses follows these two rules:

Ug (U-value of the glass alore, without the frame) <= 0,7 W/m2K (I don't know if you can set this value in ED)

Uw (U-value of the whole window, including the frame. In this case, not including the thermal bridge caused by the installation of the window) <=0,8 W/m2K (this is the U value you need to enter in ED). You entered Uw=0,60 W/m2K: did you calculate that? It seems very low to be realistic.

Ug - 1,6 * g <= 0

where "g" is your TST value

If you keep your Uw=0,60, then you need to have a 3-pan low-e glazing with Xenon gas (I hope you're not paying for this project personally) with 6-16-4-16-6 glazing and Ug=0,40 W/m2K. A typical g value for such glazing is about 0,43-0,48 (also see "Technologie und Wirtschaft des Passivhauses by Stefan Echterholter, published by Diplom.de, in German).

0,40 - 1,6*g <=0

In this case:
0,40 - 1,6*0,43 <= 0
-0,77<0 : the glazing is suitable for a passive house.

To summarize:

U-value = 0,60 (to include the Uf value of the window frame)

TST/ g value = 0,43

This will let less energy into the building, allowing for less passive heating in winter (which you do not need) and protecting your building better from overheating in summer.

Further development for your project would be to study which part of the glazing needs to have this kind of Formula-1 glass, and where you can use cheaper options.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 09:23:02 GMT

ED does not allow to enter the Ug and Uw values separatelly.
It only allows us to enter the "U" value (take a look at the attachment in this post).

And you are right. I made a mistake:

You entered Uw=0,60 W/m2K: did you calculate that?

I did not, as I did not know how to do it. 0,60 W/m2K is in fact Ug I got from the prospect(catalog) of the curtain wall producer.

If I take 0,60 W/m2K for Uw, what will be the value of my TST for that kind of windows?

also see "Technologie und Wirtschaft des Passivhauses by Stefan Echterholter, published by Diplom.de, in German

I do not speak German. I will try to find the same book in English.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:55:53 GMT

I don't think you can find that book in English: if you do, please let me know.

As far as U value for windows, remember that:

Ug = the U value for the glass only ("g" stands for "glass")

Uf = the U value for the window frame (wood, aluminum, PVC...) ("f" stands for "frame")

Uw = the average U value for the window (glass + frame). This value depends on the kind of glass you have (Ug), the window frame (Uf) and the geometry of the window. Normally, the glass insulates better than the window frame, so that if you have large windows with large glass surfaces and little frame area, they have a lower (better) Uw.The Uw that you see in catalogues is calculated on a standard window size.

In the case of Ecodesigner: Uw = U-value

Try and do your ED evaluation with these values:

U-value = 0,8 W/m2K

TST = 0,43

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 10:56:26 GMT

Thank you for the help once again Mr. Bonilauri.

I was sick, sorry for such a delay.

I tried to search for the book "Technologie und Wirtschaft des Passivhauses" on English, but you were right - it seems there is not English edition, until now.

I entered the values you specified:
U-value = 0,8 W/m2K
TST = 0,43

And the results are better than before. Take a look at the image in the attachment.
-------

Now what is still bothering me is why I can not set a "solar panel" as a source for "Hot water generation". Instead of this I need to choose Electricity or Natural gas or something else, and then I am getting a significant amount of CO2 emissions.

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:19:18 GMT

Article in ArchiMAG:
http://www.archimag.org/2011/06/07/super-low-energy-building-design-with-bim/

Re: Using Ecodesigner to make a zero C02 emission house?

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:41:25 GMT

Great article!