topic Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20 in Teamwork & BIMcloud

Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:50:44 GMT

We have been getting an error come up on Archicad 20 where it won't allow us to send. It isn't like a normal error where clearing the client cache will fix the issue. It seems to be a bim server issue as it will happen simultaneously across multiple machines both within the network and over ip.
We have tried restarting the bimserver in an effort to fix this without success and the only solution is to re-share the project which results in a loss of work. Despite the wording of the error there is no issue with connectivity or licenses. It appears to me that the server file is being corrupted somehow and not allowing the clients to connect.

Is anyone else having this issue?

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:47:15 GMT

Steve wrote:
Is anyone else having this issue?

Encountered it on multiple occasions for as long as BIM server 2.0 (Delta server) exists.

This is by far the most annoying error message of BIM server.

It has to do with loss of communication with BIM server due to:

1. bad Internet connection (WAN). Bad means loss of packets, not speed. You can have a very stable, but slow connection and everything will work fine, or you can have a very fast connection that looses packets and the error will happen. Your system administrator will know more.
2. due to all RAM being consumed on the BIM server machine (both, LAN and WAN). Rather simple. No RAM — switching to slow drives... virtual memory kicks in... bad idea.

Without too much tech stuff, if the connection is bad or RAM is gone, BIM server will struggle to check objects in and out (Delta server activity). When this happens, project database will get out of sync as states of object updates will be different on remote server (BIM server) and local machines causing this error to appear.

Prior to AC19 this message meant terminal damage to the project and the need to reshare it using the last/best available copy.

With AC19 it became better.
If the issue was Internet connection-related a few subsequent send/receive requests cleared the error (if connection got better, of course). Turning off any network hogs like downloads, movies, video conferencing or, god forbid —games, always helps.
If the issue was RAM-related server reboot was required (entire server, not just BIM server application). Reboot does not help for long, though, as RAM issue is terminal and when you are running a very RAM hungry BIM server with no empty RAM slots — it is time to move to distributed project hosting — BIM Cloud.

With AC19, the worst case scenario with this error was cleared by force-quitting affected accounts from the project (local loss of data for the affected accounts) and asking them to reconnect (administrator's rights are required for force quitting people). No terminal damage was recorded to any of AC19 projects as opposed to previous AC versions.

I have no info on AC20 yet, though.

In short. Get the best and the most stable (packet loss) connection to the server and have your sys admin monitor server's vitals from time to time to see if there is enough RAM in the box.
I would also monitor network activity to make sure there are no processes that take all the bandwidth.

Having a good connection and enough RAM largely mitigates this error.

The error will still happened to specific users as they get connected through bad connection (can't eliminate all unreliable connections), but force-quititng them solves the issue without reshaping the project (at list since AC19).

General project organization always helps too. Well-organized and well-cared for BIM server projects see little of these errors. Large unwieldy monster projects with little to no checks-and-balances related to project structure, library, object and texture management will see more of these errors.

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:53:19 GMT

Thanks Anton

Definitely not network issue, will check on ram situation and report back

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 22:30:59 GMT

Steve wrote:
Definitely not network issue, will check on ram situation and report back

Don't discount "loss of packets". I would check for that first.
If RAM is lacking the server becomes very slow and anyone would notice.
Loss of packets is much more sporadic and inconsistent to track.

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

schagemann — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 22:31:09 GMT

We never really have seen this (not on AC20 nor earlier versions) - unsure how the WAN connection may impact a LAN BIM Server connection (if I understand your setup correctly)...

Mind you, we are still testing the AC20 bimserver (on OSX10.11) and have so far only noticed that it seems rather slow when sharing / uploading even small project files ... but it is still early days!

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 22:33:46 GMT

schagemann wrote:
unsure how the WAN connection may impact a LAN BIM Server connection

It can't.
Two different things.
WAN connections are through Wide Area Network. Basically any connection to BIM server over the Internet.
LAN connections are through Local Area Network (inside the office/building).

Both can be used to access a specific server in parallel.

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

schagemann — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:01:02 GMT

correct - just to clarify why did you mention this in the first place then?

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:06:39 GMT

Network is quite small and we haven't experienced packet loss and the issue isn't rectified over time. The server is a dedicated server with plenty of ram spare. About 8GB spare when under full load so should be more than enough.

Still thinking something is corrupted on the server side, but open to suggestions otherwise

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

schagemann — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 03:00:33 GMT

Here some thoughts:

1. have you done a ping test (both to the IP and DNS name of the bimserver) over an extended period of time to see if there really is no packet loss?

2. how do you access the bimserver, via DNS name or IP - did you check that your DNS service is working properly;

3. was this always a problem on your network or only since AC20;

4. did any problems occur during installation?

Have you contacted Graphisoft about this yet?

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 04:57:30 GMT

schagemann wrote:
correct - just to clarify why did you mention this in the first place then?

Mmm.... you lost me.

Lets try again, step by step.

The OP's error above happens when communication between BIM server and client machine is affected in some way and data is lost in transfer as a result. In simple terms — data on BIM server and on client machine gets out of sync.

There are two main reasons why BIM server may throw in a towel by loosing sync between BIM Server machine and local client as a result of connection issues.
First has to do with over-the-WAN access (usually, an unstable connection in a form of excessive packet loss), second (in case of stable WAN connection or LAN connection, which is stable by default) has to do with running out of RAM.
I am simply differentiating problems to arrive at a plausible solution.

Off topic, I am curious, why you are even in this thread if you never experienced this error? 😉

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:31:38 GMT

Steve wrote:
Still thinking something is corrupted on the server side, but open to suggestions otherwise

Good catch. Of course it is. It is BIM server's issue and, judging by the fact that this issue is much less severe in AC19 than in previous versions, GS is working on it.

The question here is how to overcome it on your end, as end-user.

Naturally, I don't have access to BIM server's uncompiled code (I am not affiliated with GS in any way), but BIM server is a generic network application and should non be a rocket science to deal with.

The issue here is as follows: when communication between BIM server and client machine is affected in any way (as in any other IP-based, multipeer network), any current operation of checking in/out objects from BIM server receives a sort of a flag that states that operation is still in progress causing BIM server to wait for connection to become suitable again to continue normal operation (this is how i/o operations with databases work in general to prevent simultaneous write access from different directions to any one specific item). As it happens here (in error), this "under construction" flag does not get removed from somewhere in the database when connection is restored to normal causing the topic-starting error message to appear on every connection attempt (send/receive end-user action).

This is why dumping a user from a project helps (by loosing some unsaved data on the client machine, but clearing, nonetheless, hypothetical "under construction" flag on the server and allowing user to reconnect to the project and function normally), as it is client-server related issue.

You can't really fix this problem (only GS can, by improving/fixing the initial BIM server code), but we can prevent it by having stable (no packet loss) connection, having enough RAM (obviously, as any active project on BIM server needs some RAM and lack of RAM will cause all processes on the server to slow down dramatically raising the chance of above mentioned "under construction" flag to go rogue), and last, but not in any way least, having a properly structured ARCHICAD Teamwork project that minimizes chances of this error happening through proper organization (strict library, object and plugin quality assurance as well as generic organizational improvements to Project Map and Model Views inherent to any shared (Teamwork) projects).

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:54:04 GMT

schagemann wrote:
Here some thoughts:

1. have you done a ping test (both to the IP and DNS name of the bimserver) over an extended period of time to see if there really is no packet loss?

2. how do you access the bimserver, via DNS name or IP - did you check that your DNS service is working properly;

3. was this always a problem on your network or only since AC20;

4. did any problems occur during installation?

Have you contacted Graphisoft about this yet?

Hi schagemann

1. Yes. No issue
2. We do both, however the ip always resolves to dns as expected and issue effects both connections thru LAN and WAN
3. First noticed it in AC20 RC1. Guess I can bear some of the blame for not testing teamwork further while in beta
4. No issue in Install
5. Yes I have been in contact with and am in the process of compiling files to send to them. I guess the reason why I asked the question on the forum is even though local distributers are very helpful and I have always found Graphisoft Hungary great to deal with, It is helpful to discuss this with other users. There is nothing like real world experience and I guess if I am the only one experiencing this issue I would investigate further within the business where as if it was a problem that was wider spread, I would spend the time and compile the files

Thanks for your input schagemann

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 08:04:07 GMT

Anton wrote:

Good catch. Of course it is. It is BIM server's issue and, judging by the fact that this issue is much less severe in AC19 than in previous versions, GS is working on it.

The question here is how to overcome it on your end, as end-user.

Thanks Anton. Used Teamwork since 13 and it a great and under utilized tool. We find ourselves discovering better ways of implementing the more we use it and to be honest we have generally trace issues back to our own hardware, however this one seem different.

On a side note, how many users do you have on teamwork?

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 08:21:41 GMT

Steve wrote:
On a side note, how many users do you have on teamwork?

Not as many as I would want to run a few tests on. 😞

It is mostly Revit now, for the larger firms. The largest company I consulted on BIM server issues had 17 licenses.

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 08:54:34 GMT

Anton wrote:

It is mostly Revit now, for the larger firms. The largest company I consulted on BIM server issues had 17 licenses.

Yes. Had an interesting experience this week. We are collaborating with a large for New Zealand, Revit architectural practice of about 50 architects and technicians that seemed to be amazed at what we could achieve with BimX and Archicad. We are a small firm by comparison but seem to much further along on the practical advantages of BIM.

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Marton Kiss — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 13:11:46 GMT

Steve wrote:
We have been getting an error come up on Archicad 20 where it won't allow us to send. It isn't like a normal error where clearing the client cache will fix the issue. It seems to be a bim server issue as it will happen simultaneously across multiple machines both within the network and over ip.
We have tried restarting the bimserver in an effort to fix this without success and the only solution is to re-share the project which results in a loss of work. Despite the wording of the error there is no issue with connectivity or licenses. It appears to me that the server file is being corrupted somehow and not allowing the clients to connect.

Is anyone else having this issue?

Hi Steve,

I am a little latecomer in this thread. As far as I see the network side you TALKers have already covered, so my second guess is that there was a reservation conflict, which AC and the BIM Server could not resolve. In such cases the server protects its database, which can lead to similar errors.

Here are a few ideas:
- release all by all clients, which can send data
- try to reserve all with the particular user receiving this message, attempt to send again
- if the above does not help then best is saving off a pln from the most recent client's data and re-sharing it as a new TW project

I hope this helps,
Marton

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 21:45:37 GMT

Marton wrote:

Here are a few ideas:
- release all by all clients, which can send data
- try to reserve all with the particular user receiving this message, attempt to send again
- if the above does not help then best is saving off a pln from the most recent client's data and re-sharing it as a new TW project

I hope this helps,
Marton

Hi Martin

No luck with release all. Same message
No luck with reserve all. Same message. Strangely enough it allows me to reserve all but not send changes
Yes, resharing, that seems to be the only answer, but results in a loss of work.

It created a support package on the last incident. Would it help if I were to send this to graphisoft?

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Marton Kiss — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 10:50:32 GMT

Steve wrote:
It created a support package on the last incident. Would it help if I were to send this to graphisoft?

Yes, absolutely. Such packages are a great help for us to hunt down all potential issues that can result similar situations - requiring extra work on your end.

Please share that with our local support team - Cadimage and they will forward it to us for analysis.

Thanks,
Marton

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:07:25 GMT

Cheers Martin.

Have sent files to Andrew at Cadimage. Let me know if you need any further information.

Re: Teamwork error on send Archicad 20

Marton Kiss — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 11:06:39 GMT

Steve wrote:
Cheers Martin.

Have sent files to Andrew at Cadimage. Let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks, we received the package, will keep you posted with our findings or if further information is needed.

Support case #: 58189

Marton