topic Re: Teamwork - very large project database in Teamwork & BIMcloud

Teamwork - very large project database

pejotu — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:26:54 GMT

Hi!

We're working on a seven storey hotel interior.
Very little of the model has been done in Archicad, focusing only on the interiors, furniture etc.

Still, the project file has become very large and a little too sluggish.

As a local .pln file the project file is 400 Mb, but once it's loaded into the teamwork server, it suddenly grows into 1,8 Gb!

Any tips on making the file smaller?

(I've tried optimizing, for example making .mod files of some large 2D-drawings that don't need to be edited etc, but this had no effect)

Working with Archicad 14 on WIN7 64bit workstations (+ 1 32bit XP), the server is a 32bit XP machine.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:02:26 GMT

1.8GB is that all, see my recent post here

PLN files increase 5 fold when teamworked. I'm not sure if there is anything you can do about the file size?

We invest in hardware to cope with the 'advances' of ArchiCad. We have a dedicated BimServer which has a quad core processor and 24GB of RAM. All workstations are quad core with 12GB of RAM.

I'm not sure how well your BIMServer is performing, I guess not very well if it is only 32bit, with max 4GB of RAM?

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

pejotu — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:13:16 GMT

Well, judging by the resource log on the server, we're not pushing it even close to its limits... (there's currently only one other project running there, and only a few users at the same time)

But it does take an inordinate amount of time to join the project.

I've also tried removing the 2D-drawings (old plans, electrical and plumbing) entirely, which does take 1 Gb off the file size. But so far reinserting them as Xref or .mod bumps the file size back up to 1,8Gb. (one would think that a "block" of data like that wouldn't cause that much overhead to be created...)

I'm thinking of trying inserting these as external drawings (from an external .pln, or .dwg, or even .pmk) next, but that might cause some problems when we need to send the plans out as DWGs...

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:20:46 GMT

I would stick my neck out and suggest your BIMServer is starting to struggle.

We originally had the BIMServer running on a 32bit machine with 4GB of RAM, signing in/sending changes sometimes took up to 40mins with the larger projects!!

As we earn our cash using computers, we could not afford to have these sort of delays. Poor performing IT is also bad for staff moral.

I would look at a new dedicated BIMServer with at least 16GB of RAM.

EDIT: Our main project is a £25m office development. We have ALL subcontractors/engineers drawings imported onto worksheets - we have no real performance issues with the spec of our computers

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

pejotu — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:15:02 GMT

OK, thank you for the comments.

We had a look at the performance of the server with our IT-support, and it seems the teamwork-server's statistics are slightly understated, Task Manager shows that the processor is working close to its limits.

We'll try and improve network performance, and if that doesn't help significantly, I suppose we'll have invest in a new system.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

David Shorter — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:48:10 GMT

I'd get a new dedicated win7 64bit machine with 8 or preferably 16 Gb RAM and a fast hard disk. Don't run anything else especially a mail server.
Keep the project and library directories out of the program directory. Minimize embedded library objects.
Hope this helps.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Feb 2017 14:39:44 GMT

we have the same problem. we're working 9 people on 1 teamwork project, It take almost 1 hour starting archicad, sometimes less. The pln file size is 1Gb but in teamwork become 8.5Gb. I don't know why! It take 20min when I send & receive or reserve an object... Does anyone know why? We have had upgraded all computer and the problem still the same...

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

David Shorter — Fri, 17 Feb 2017 23:58:41 GMT

What are your specs for ....
server
network arrange (WIFI or wired)
is your server local OR EXTERNAL
what operating systems for each of your machines
what version of ARCHICAD

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 17:37:37 GMT

I think these file sizes are really large and that sheer size of data may start causing those slownesses. You should start looking for some reasons why and see if you can make these files lighter.
Here is an article:

http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/troubleshooting/performance/summary-of-typical-3d-speed-problems-2/

It is a few years old but I think most of the things it mentions apply to the latest versions as well.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

schagemann — Sun, 19 Feb 2017 21:28:54 GMT

we have had this happen to us recently as well - thus here is what we found:

1. check your network and switch setup;

2. reduce file size, anythiany TW file beyond 3-4 GB i would start looking at very closely... check for anything superfluous in the project map (worksheets and sections);

3. check the library manager - some people load PLA's as libraries;

4. increase RAM on both server and workstations, the bigger the file the more RAM speeds things up significantly;

5. check your backup settings on the BIM Server - the default settings might contribute to your problem;

6. if you are running on Apple hardware ensure that WiFi is switched off on all devices;

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Thu, 11 May 2017 14:14:35 GMT

Hi,

I Have similar problem.

Recently our file became Extra slow. When I entered Our server manager, I saw that project is 12,6 GB large.

After cleaning the file from unnecessary elevations/sections/viewports/layouts nothing happened - the file is still 12,6 Gb. I've checked polygons too and it's pretty neat.

We even tried to leave the project and reset TW machine.

I had that issue before and I don't know how to solve that. Please don't tell me to start with new file because It's too time-consuming.

Our TW machine is used only as a Teamwork and Database machine and it's running on i7 3,4 Ghz, ssd, 16GB ram, Win 10. We are connected via LAN (1Gb/s speed).

For now file became unworkable because any action, even selecting an object, takes forever.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

schagemann — Thu, 11 May 2017 23:43:47 GMT

Have you tried resharing the 'bloated' teamwork file, i.e. do a save as then reshare?

Also try to avoid the PLN backup's on the bimserver, since they require user interaction they might be kicking in simultaneously.

Btw. 16GB is in our experience the bare minimum for bimserver and not really suited for bigger projects... also please amend your signature so we can see what hardware you are using.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Sep 2017 13:34:53 GMT

FWIW - we've had very similar experiences working with larger TW projects.

Currently we are using a Xeon CPU, 64GB RAM, 512GB SSD (hardware) RAID1 on Windows 10, but send/receive can still be incredibly slow (workstations are 2015 CTO iMacs with fastest CPUs/GPUs and 16 or 32GB RAM, 1Gb LAN)

Windows Task Manager on the TW server shows utilization between 7 and 30% CPU, 20% RAM.

This is ArchiCAD 19 (9001). Will be upgrading to 20 soon.

I'm glad to see Graphisoft finally managed to update the system reqs article to something better than "2GB of RAM or more", but I think what they really should do is release a benchmarking/auditing tool that we could run on our servers which would consider not only the hardware specs, but also the number and size of projects hosted on the server.

Currently the only metric for project "size" we users have is filesize, which I fear has actually very little to do with how well the project will actually run...

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

schagemann — Tue, 26 Sep 2017 21:23:44 GMT

The benchmark tool is a great idea.

As the current bimserver manager activities display is rather limited in its usefulness, such an alaytical tool could be really beneficial and eventually it should become the central management hub for TW projects.

We had previously suggested to Graphisoft that the bimserver manager should display the following:

- collect all crash reports from workstations before sending them to GS;
- backup settings overview;
- global backup setting adjustment for all projects;
- global project size reporting with history;

...if you can think of anything else please feel free to add.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Sep 2017 06:57:13 GMT

Those are all great suggestions!

I would also add a report on what projects are using any given library (so we don't have to open a project in AC just to see which external TW libraries it's linked to). Ideally one would be able to just click a library name in the Libraries-view in BS/BC Manager and see which projects are using it.

I've been tinkering on a Python client for TW, theoretically some of this stuff could be done through it (like get a list of all projects and their sizes, members etc):

https://github.com/filipp/bimclient

... my main motivation for that was automated TW server monitoring.

Re: Teamwork - very large project database

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:02:01 GMT

Save as PLN, delete as many cad files as possible and unnecessary libraries/objects than reshare the model works in these cases.

This works. Also make sure network is Gigabit connection, 100Mbit network will kill the process.