topic Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D) in Visualization

Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Anonymous — Thu, 11 May 2023 12:43:18 GMT

I would like to know your opinion about the possibility to walk through archicad 3D projects in realtime online. Would it be interesting for architects and designer? I mean to create with Archicad good quality interactive 3D scenes to publish as realtime web 3D walk through.
With "interactive" I mean the possibility for a web user to interact with 3d scenes (linked to each other) by clicking on different links to open web pages, documents, pictures, video, audio and so on ...
Could Archicad become interesting for web 3d worlds creators?

Giovanni Dragone

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

stefan — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:43:30 GMT

Not ArchiCAD alone. You can use ArchiCAD to produce the 3D Model and use other software, such as TurnTool, Wirefusion, Cult3D which use their own format or even 3ds max/VIZ and it's VRML helpers to prepare a VRML scene with interactivity to use in regular VRML browsers.

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:31:46 GMT

In my opinion for a good real time web 3D is important: good quality in short size, interactivity, easy and comfortable navigation modes (walk through, fly through, rotate, slide ...). In my experience VRML (open source standard 3D for the web) is much better than any other web 3D technology.
There are tools which allows you to get excellent interactive realtime web 3d scenes by starting from the VRML generated by Archicad.
As now hardware is ready ....what I would like to know is if realtime web 3D could be considered an opportunity for Architects, Estate agents, Building contractors ...

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

stefan — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:05:08 GMT

From my personal experience:

Cult3D VIZ Exporter is (almost) a one-click process, going from a 3D Studio scene (which could be an imported 3ds-file from ArchiCAD) to on online walkthrough. You need to install the Cult3D player which is available (free) on Windows and OSX. This is not based on VRML.

VRML files from ArchiCAD could be linked directly, but I had much better results importing a 3ds file from ArchiCAD into VIZ and add VRML navigation and other helper objects there. Specifically, when using the Blaxxun Contact navigator, the VRML file from ArchiCAD was oriented wrong (that is, Z is up in CAD but is frontal in the screen in most animation software).

Wirefusion can import VRML files and publish the scene as a Java-applet. Walkthrough and collision detection are available.

TurnTool has an ArchiCAD plugin (I tested the beta-version) which makes it a one-step process from ArchiCAD. This is not based on VRML.

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:53:51 GMT

Hi Stefan
thanks for your answer. Of course all the technology you indicate are useful and important, but I wanted to talk about online interactive architectural walk through. Cult 3D is optimum but you cannot walk through anything. I viewed same examples made with Wirefusion, but I was only able to rotate and zoom something. Anyway an easy and comfortable walkthrouh means mouse navigation (no keyboard), collision detection, gravity (possibility to go upstairs or downstairs) speed control.
When I talk about interactivity I mean the possibility to switch on/off lights, to open doors and drawers and I mean also the possibility for a web user to interact with 3d scenes (linked to each other) by clicking on different links to web pages, documents, pictures, video, audio and so on ... VRML gives me all these possibilities, but you are right when you say that is difficult to get good results, because at the moment there is not a one step process from ARCHICAD. May be in the very next future it will be.

The point is: there are not suitable tools because Architect are not interested in Realtime web 3D or ... Architect are not interested in Realtime web 3D because there not adequate tools ?

(sorry for my english... I'm italian)

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

stefan — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:14:12 GMT

Giovanni wrote:
Hi Stefan
thanks for your answer. Of course all the technology you indicate are useful and important, but I wanted to talk about online interactive architectural walk through. Cult 3D is optimum but you cannot walk through anything.

The Cult3D VIZ Exporter can create a fully walkable scene, with gravity, collision, but not with the editability of the regular Cult3D interactive scene.

Giovanni wrote:
I viewed same examples made with Wirefusion, but I was only able to rotate and zoom something.

When you load a 3D file into Wirefusion, you have the choice between 3D Object (rotate & zoom) or 3D World (walk around).
Check the example Art Gallery on the Demicron Site.
You can add interactivity to objects. I've linked a slider to a texture array which allows you to interactively change materials. You can add other interactivity, such as changing colors, opacity, reflection etc... whatever.

Giovanni wrote:
Anyway an easy and comfortable walkthrouh means mouse navigation (no keyboard), collision detection, gravity (possibility to go upstairs or downstairs) speed control.
When I talk about interactivity I mean the possibility to switch on/off lights, to open doors and drawers and I mean also the possibility for a web user to interact with 3d scenes (linked to each other) by clicking on different links to web pages, documents, pictures, video, audio and so on

You can do that in most of these tools.
But beware, lights do not cast shadows in most of these applications. I think Quest 3D has dynamic shadows. Zermatt had shadows.
They will come eventually with the better support for advanced shaders in hardware.
You can link to these online scenes with Javascript, in most cases. There is a lot that you can do with this out-of-the-box solutions.

And you can do many of that with just 3ds max and the VRML helpers.

Giovanni wrote:
... VRML gives me all these possibilities, but you are right when you say that is difficult to get good results, because at the moment there is not a one step process from ARCHICAD. May be in the very next future it will be.

The point is: there are not suitable tools because Architect are not interested in Realtime web 3D or ... Architect are not interested in Realtime web 3D because there not adequate tools ?

(sorry for my english... I'm italian)

Architects will be interested if they don't have to program. All these applications require programming, even though you don't have to write code.

I like programming, but I stopped being an architect 😉

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:12:33 GMT

Cult 3D is very famous, but not for realtime architectural walk through. Watch their online gallery, you cannot find one single example.
There must be a reason!!

On the site of demicron I found only one interior walk through, but believe me the best VRML is really something else.

Quest 3D and Zermatt engine are not tools for realtime Web 3D and they call small file a file of 20 MB.

At this site there is an example of VRML scene created with ARCHICAD.
http://www.int3d.com/3dscenes/house3d/house3d.html

If you live in a castle in Belgium it means that programming is much better than doing the Architect

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

stefan — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:57:52 GMT

I'm familiar with the VRML example. But it takes some serious preparation in an editing environment.

Cult3D:
http://www.divaconsult.net/leistungen/detail.asp?ID=1
--> go to 3D Walkthrough (walking in Cult3D has a funny bounce, no interactivity though)

Demicron:
http://www.demicron.com/gallery/cat_virtual.html
http://www.demicron.com/gallery/interior.html
(this last one has opening doors)

I most of this cases, getting a good shadow-quality requires texture baking (lightmap creation), a process that can be created in VIZ/3ds max, but also in other modern DCC applications, such as Maya, XSI and Cinema4D.

You could make each room a single unit and make two lightmaps for the whole: a dark one and a lighted one. Clicking light switches could switch the texturemap for that particular room.

But having actual projected shadows would make it a lot easier.

FWIW, this technique should work with all these technologies.

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Andy Thomson — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:16:13 GMT

Giovanni, I am pretty confident you can get exactly what you are after with Turntool, as they even have a new plugin for AC10 - withy camera paths, walkthrough and tour capabilities, but why do you seem to be so hung up on VRML? Have you tried turntool yet? It is pretty easy to export right from ArchiCad....... and why start yet another thread on this? Frankly, the VRML I played with years ago looked extremely hokey in comparison. But there you are.

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 05:11:26 GMT

Andyro there are two similar thread because I didn’ta realize that the first one was moved to a different forum by the moderator . Anyway I'm not talking about me, I’m not interested in turntool or similar, because I work with vrml since many years and, in my opinion, I can get better results (talking about render quality, lightness, interactivity, navigation modes) with VRML which is free of charge, but I know very well that at the moment Vrml is not for everybody.

I was talking in general about Architects and Realtime web 3D.
My question was : now that hardware is ready and Internet is growing up day by day could Realtime web 3D become interesting for Architects, estate agents, building contractors ? why yes ... and why not.

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Andy Thomson — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:00:56 GMT

Thanks for clarifying. I am certainly interested in live 3D interactive walkthoughs, and explored VRML early on with hopes that this was going somewhere, I followed the development and participated in the beta of Adobe Atmosphere, which hasn't really become well known, and the former macromedia's 3D shockwave plugin, which was pretty lame.

While I did get excellent results (geometry and texture, if not lighting), interactivity (multiple websites/portals through graphic, rich 3D environments, like doors) - it was a lot of work - to get AC models all the way over to Atmosphere, using Maya and Viewpoint/trixel software as intermediaries.

All that being said, I am still really disappointed there is no rich, architectural content viewer online yet. I played with Zermatt, but it seemed to be a real pig, not nimble at all. When I found turntool - I was happy to see at least someone advancing the charge, and making it work for Archicad (complete with multi-camera tours and free walkthroughs) - so yeah, while it is not free, it is better than me spending weeks getting a mediocre 'world' uploaded!

I am hoping some others may contribute to the discussion, as it is of great interest to me. And I didn't realize the thread was moved.

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

stefan — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:43:23 GMT

FWIW, I have a subscription to 3D World Magazine for the last two years and the topic of 3D for Website comes up about every two years. Each time, an overview is given of the main players (which are always the same 4 and then one of the older ones disappeared and a new one joins the gang).

They always say that 'last time', when Web3D stood at the point of breakthrough, it didn't happen for so and so reasons. And then they try to predict if we are on a breakthrough now.

Some comments on applications in this thread:

- Atmosphere (I thought it has been retired?)

- Cult3D: has it's own niche, where it doesn't seem to really grow, nor does it seem to disappear from the map

- TurnTool: getting stronger? It has grown considerably with regards to architectural visualization, so it seems

- Wirefusion: slowly growing? They are at least so desperate to donate free versions of their prior releases to 3D World and other magazines 😉

- VRML: never really gone. In academic conferences (one of the things I visit for my job), VRML is still very active in many presentations, since it works, is available and is free to use.

I have been collecting info, some time ago and created the start of my 'Web Study' at http://www2.asro.kuleuven.be/asro/English/HOME/SBs/web/web.htm
including many realtime tools, for Web and VR use. I never finished it with full examples on every page, and some tools are not mentioned (e.g. Atmosphere)

-------------------

I still believe realtime 3D on the internet is very, very valid for architects, but in almost every case there are problems:

- you can choose between interactivity or realtime walkthroughs, but often not both at the same time

- you need a seperate authoring application, which requires (visual) programming and even though it could create all you need, it requires a tremendous amount of preparation.

- there are direct plugins for CAD and 3D applications, but then you give up on editability and interactivity

- almost every system targets 3ds max and/or maya, but few other systems (the conversion from ArchiCAD is usually strictly sequential: export, import, prepare, publish, evaluate... start all over again)

- pricing is often an issue: either the software is expensive (several thousands of dollars) or the publishing fees are huge.

- compatiblity can be an issue: most viewers are free, but many of them are ActiveX controls for Internet Explorer on Windows. Few options support alternative browsers and/or platforms (e.g. Wirefusion generates Java Applets)

Re: Archicad and VRML (Realtime web 3D)

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:25:44 GMT

Web3D is definitely being used a lot for architectural visualizations of houses to be built in Scandinavia. Though this is rarely the architects doings, it is the developers or real-estate agents hiring bureaus to remodel the architects design in 3D with baked lighting and nice furnishing. We have created a lot of such models using our TurnTool technology you can find examples here: Real estate vizualisations.