topic Re: Critique Wanted in Visualization

Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Thu, 11 May 2023 13:57:56 GMT

Feedback / Insight of peoples opinions on how to improve upon this image would be appreciated..... Dwight?
eg. pro's & con's

(AC9 & Art R with a little p/shop)

Thanks,
Peter

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:46:37 GMT

Very nice...
I didn't know that you could make so good renders using Artlantis.
How many years of experience do you have?

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:56:31 GMT

thanks WhiteMan,

About 2-3 years with artlantis.

Re: Critique Wanted

Dwight — Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:14:30 GMT

This is technically excellent, possessing the ideal commercial composition for a dwelling for a person with new money - a cold-hearted shark, say, who cons old ladies into parting with their life savings so he can build a waterfront home. This is because the image is "cold," being a psychological barrier to appeal (except to the aformentioned financial shark person).
Of course, i am being overly-theatrical with my response, but i'm probably not alone at the subconscious level.

Consider these ideas:

1: The background brings a suggestion of high haze or overcast sky, but the shadows are perfect and sharp, almost as sharp as the sunlight in Lower Hutt, New Zealand. Of course, everyone knows that it is ALWAYS sunny in Perth, too. Had a lovely time there last April visiting relatives and my old college chum Paul Sims. He invented the famous video game (joke). I'd soften the light and try to fill the soffits with light energy because they appear sinister. Will remember Perth because of the enthusiastic seminar audience.

2: Those bricks, as the dominant textural elements in the image, are way too well-defined. The mortar should be greyer and the units smaller. View the image small as you've previewed it - the anti-aliasing of the smaller image "videos" the pattern, making it stick out - a sure sign that a texture is too strong. For instance, the soffit boards recede as a texture should. Can you help the bricks a little?

3: The light is cold. Subsequently, the foliage is bluish. Can you make the sun light more yellow? Yellow light would make me think of a person who got rich raising bunnies as pets for orphans rather than a person who ripped-off geezers.

4: Another sinister aspect of this image is the blackness of the interior. What's going on in there? Are they cleaning their guns or torturing the bunnies they stole from the philanthropist down the street upon whose house friendly yellow light falls? "Hey. I like the light on his house. Let's go steal it!" I'd be boosting the interior light AND increasing the transparency of the glass. I know that you guys are using that special heat-repelling glass that looks bluish and dense, but that is not the stuff to put into a rendering. A house like this is meant to show off the resident - help your client understand the exhibitionistic aspects of the design.

5: It is just a prejudiice of mine, but i likes me the dark foregrounds, eh?
In my image reply, you'll see that i textured and darkened the street paving. You could also use a street tree's dappled shadow to ground the scene. I l ike the shadow approach because it implies a world going beyond the model. A further foreground problem - one that we see all the time and is really hard to fix - is that continuous street of pavement forming a barrier to the eye. I'd be breaking-up that continuity with dappled shadow or a parked vehicle (in shade).

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:47:44 GMT

thanks dwight,
I like the foreground shadow suggestion.
I cheated the interior with dark glass as i didn't model anything internally
to save time, but you're right it would look much better if i did
Those poor bunnies, i should really try to save them!!

Cheers

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:21:40 GMT

After such deep and qualitative analyzing from Mr. Dwight, I had to put one pic from one of the projects I'm working on now and hope I ll get some of world class critique too.

I wanted to save time (u wouldn't belive it , no one wants to save time today ) and rendered it right in archicad - LIHGHTWORKS, after a very little material correction. Dwight, I know u r lightworks "guru". I never rendered in archicad before.

There was one parallel topic for the rendering time qestion, Ill put it here:
This picture is originally size of 3300x2500 pixels and rendering time was 35 min. That is very good for a rendering that size, right? In any other specialized program (like artlantis) would it take longer - right?

I like the "depth cue" in lightworks - works really fine, but there are some problems, if u look at the picture the bottom circle road (at the small passenger bridge) is elevated 5m belove zero (that is the only way passenger, car and train traffic could be solved withouth crossing) and you cant get that feeling cause there is no radiosity. Of course, shadows could be added in photoshop but that means more work than get the project rendered in artlantis. Is there something what could be done?

Re: Critique Wanted

Dwight — Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:59:09 GMT

What's your story?

Your chosen art direction is a soft, pastel dream rather than a photorealistic rendering, so there's not much to say about technique. The shapes and relationships of the structures are well-elaborated, but photoreal aspects are missing - largely in part due to the lack of model detail necessary to convince the eye. However, to properly detail this project would be a stupendous task. This looks like a modeling exercise rather than an urban design. At least i hope it is.

As for rendering time, making reference to the pixel output size is of minor significance relative to the rendering speed of the application. It's all about polygons in the model and the rendering quality features selected. You can always tell this because when you ask for a rendering, the system works for quite a while without producing any image. This is because it is resolving the raytracing "solution." Then it renders the solution. The more polygons in the model, the longer this solution and its subsequent rendering. This model appears to have a very few polygons relative to a real project, except in the trees.

In improving rendering the task is to study photos similar in aspect to the rendering planned. Seeing a photo would help you fix problems like the over-prominent parking slot markers and other over-detailed elements.

My observations are:

Impending disaster: the airliner is on a collision course with the balloon. Airliners at low altitude far from an airport are sinister. We fear that the pilots are chanting. Besides, everybody knows that terrorists cannot resist destroying spheres painted with orange and blue stripes. Like a red cape to a Spanish bull. Many illustrators place entourage elements without considering the implied story. Also, considering the fog, the airborne elements are distractions. RULE: Be logical or leave it out.

Landscape: The larger trees might be the right height, but their parts are way out of scale. Since the foliage has the only roughness in the scene it makes the trees too prominent. Your best foliage is on the left in the mid-ground. With a model having schematic detail, perhaps you should use translucent spheres on sticks to represent trees. Uniformity counts.

Light: Very incongruous shadows. Can't explain why. Airliner has oversharp shadow, foreground elements shadow too diffuse. I suggest using the sun sun shader rather than realistic sun. This will produce a more uniform shadow that will help in expressing the different levels of the scheme that you complain about. Light and shadow inform.

Color: The colors and geomentry of the bright green, ochre and orange fields adjacent to the project are distracting. Add more fog or suppress the field colors. While i have previously observed that "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WHITE!!™" so often that it is a well-known slogan, your work inspires me toward a new slogan that ridicules grey. We think that asphalt and concrete are grey, but there's a range of color in those materials that can please the eye. I'd make the road surfaces darker and rougher, or lighter.

Surfaces: Roughness adds gravity, slickness look plastic. Rough, GOOD. SMART. Shiny, BAD. STUPID. For instance, in North America we have trucks dangling mudflaps with chrome silhouettes of reclining, long-haired women. I think that the chrome women are supposed to be lures for real-life "shiny" women. Shiny gals look at the man in the pick-up truck, see the chrome silhouettes on the mud flaps and are attracted. They say "Look!! On the mud flaps!! Shiny women! Let's meet that guy, I think he's a doctor."

Entourage: Remove cars totally like the Japanese do for their architectural photography OR add more cars to explain that there IS some life to this place, even if the cars are blocky. Make an accident at one of the traffic circles. That would be photo-realistiic.

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:55:42 GMT

Thank you for excellent - world class - critique. I agree with all your ideas.

Impending disaster: the airliner is on a collision course with the balloon. Airliners at low altitude far from an airport are sinister. We fear that the pilots are chanting. Besides, everybody knows that terrorists cannot resist destroying spheres painted with orange and blue stripes. Like a red cape to a Spanish bull.

...in North America we have trucks dangling mudflaps with chrome silhouettes of reclining, long-haired women....They say "Look!! On the mud flaps!! Shiny women! Let's meet that guy, I think he's a doctor."

I like your cirtique style. You are combining your stand-up comedy skills with the seriousity and boringness of architectural critique and that focuses peoples attention much better on your thoughts and makes them easier to understand. Excellent. Keep the good work on.

Make an accident at one of the traffic circles. That would be photo-realistiic.

I have vehicles in my library like police, ambulance fire vehicle, car wagon... I thought Ill never use them, you gave an excellent idea for some accident scene.

Your all other ideas are also very good, Ill try to implement them!

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:09:03 GMT

Well, first of all, you have to say which program did you use, then some informations about rendering time...
I think that project is very big, so getting realistic render is much harder then in small projects, but it is possible. As I sad, you have to say what program did you use. Also, shadows could be better...
Is the model done in ArchiCAD?
Where did you find models of planes, trains...

About trees, cars I have to say that I completely agree with Dwight

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:11:54 GMT

Peter, after Dwight's comments I can only add that modelling the interior will not be of much help, because on a bright sunny day window glass always looks dark. To see what is inside the room you will need to put an extra lamp inside.

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:41:38 GMT

some entourage altered along with background along with colours

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:59:46 GMT

WhiteMan wrote:
Well, first of all, you have to say which program did you use

I usually don't tell my secrets, but just for you, it was modeled in archicad.

then some informations about rendering time...

I don't get it - I wrote that rendering time was 35 min., what else should I write about it?

I think that project is very big, so getting realistic render is much harder then in small projects, but it is possible.

Its possible but needs lot of time, i don't want the rendering to be the major part of my architectural worktime. I have to learn about some visualization technics that Dwight mentioned, with their help even 2nd class rendering can look good and it takes maybe 1 - 2 hours to make it: 1. putting additional objects like cars, peoples... 2. adjusting materials and sun angle with help of small rendering pics 3. final rendering 4.photoshop - fast correction all that in 1-2hr. Thats good - isnt it?

As I sad, you have to say what program did you use.

Its not a secret to you any more but don't tell it to the others, I don't wanna have strong concurrence here around, let them think i'm using some other program, ok?

Also, shadows could be better...

Yeah, they really look poor! No radiosity at all. But saved lot of time.

Is the model done in ArchiCAD?

If someone asks you about my program - no it is not that one! No one here is talking about his modeling program, its like asking coca-cola company what is exactly the ratio of ingredients they put in cola or asking microsoft to give you the code key of windows so you could reprogram it. They would never tell u such a thing, its a special secret.

Where did you find models of planes, trains...

I got planes, helicopter, ballon, cars and peoples in my additional archicad library. Only the trains I had to get from artlantis. I positioned the trains in artlantis to be approx. in same position as they should be on the pic, rendered them and photoshoped into a pic (its best if u use white background so u can make white color easily disappear in photoshop) after that i did some cutting, rotating, perspective and shadow corrections and thats it.

About trees, cars I have to say that I completely agree with Dwight

Apsolutly. Especially with the large trees on the middle of the pic. These are archicads basic trees that are scaled about 3 times so they have now giant leafs. I could scale the leafs back but than had to put more leafs on the tree and that means more processing time for computer. Trees slow the work dramatically. The only problem is that I don't like translucent spheres on sticks, even if it would be the right thing for such picture.

Re: Critique Wanted

Dwight — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:18:08 GMT

Much better!

The job still looks sinister and dark, however.
That's probably how it would appear in a photo, but that is not how we want to remember the place.

So i brightened the soffits. See? Happy happy, get snappy! This corresponds to the memory of the building because, while a photo responds to only one exposure set, when the human eye darts around a building facade, it makes incremental exposure adjustments to suppress highlights and see into shadows. The illustrator must compensate for this problem in his final image.

Brickwork still too strong.

I liked having trees in the background on the right.

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:51:24 GMT

Still windows are "empty". Try to put some reflection to them - real or fake with a dffuse map.

Glass on the balcony is the same as windows - since windows are in the shadow, it should be lighter.

Also, remember Dwight's slogan about white. Both the white wall and the brown wall on the left lack grain and are too "plastic". Same with the asphalt. The tree on the left is too dark - needs more green.

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:18:08 GMT

not perfect, still need a little bump on walls & maybe some foreground elements like road shadows etc, but this will have to do ......run out of time, but still satisfied with final result...thanks guys for terrific input...will come to good use in the future...Client was very happy

thanks Dwight, Klement & co

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:12:26 GMT

Mr. Dwight, I don't wanna bother you, but would you tell me in few words what do u think about this image? I'm very curious!

Re: Critique Wanted

Dwight — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:57:32 GMT

I find myself predictably uninspired by this work.

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:26:30 GMT

back to Dwight's basics.
STORY ... this looks like an add for a roofing membrane.

Re: Critique Wanted

Djordje — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:13:05 GMT

Dwight wrote:
I find myself predictably uninspired by this work.

Thanks.

The project in question is GE WPT, Jebel Ali Free Zone, Dubai. Finished two months ago.

The Client called at lunchtime and asked me whether we could have a rendering because an article on their development is being published in a local paper. Deadline? Yesterday. Project done in AutoCAD, no model.

He had the rendering in four hours. It was good enough.

Re: Critique Wanted

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:31:20 GMT

Đoka:

Project done in AutoCAD, no model.

He had the rendering in four hours.

I would be very very satisfied with this result if I could make that (starting from Autocad 2d lines) in four hours.

Usually this level of 3d presentation is enough for our clients. For smaller projects, like family houses, they don't even order 3d views, they r satisfied with facade projections done with 2d autocad lines and some hatches that simulate shadows and a little vegetation.