topic Re: Incorrect reflection in Visualization

Incorrect reflection

Scott Bulmer — Thu, 11 May 2023 11:10:29 GMT

I know this may not be the correct forum for this but here goes; is there a way to make the reflection in windows map correctly the rear of the billboard object being reflected? This was rendered in Artlantis R, but I believe it will be the same in LW. This is a typical condition we have that repeats itself many times.
Thanks as always,
Scott

Re: Incorrect reflection

Anonymous — Thu, 11 May 2006 10:06:10 GMT

Hi Scott,

I've noticed same thing but only regarding 2d silhouettes and bachground images. 3d objects reflects correctly. I think it is characteristic for flat objects - they just have one viewplane to present. My workaround for background is... not to use it or put an extra poster behind the camera to diversify the reflections.

Cheers

Re: Incorrect reflection

stefan — Thu, 11 May 2006 14:06:26 GMT

This is expected behaviour of billboard images in ANY rendering application.
You would either use a two-sided material (with a front and back photograph), or real 3D objects.

Or add them in the post-process (Photoshop, Piranesi) and ignore their reflections.

Re: Incorrect reflection

Scott Bulmer — Thu, 11 May 2006 15:29:53 GMT

Pawel & Stefan,
Thanks so much for the valued info. Based on your comments, looks like an airbrush is the least painless and quickest solution. Maybe one day the poster/billboards will be two sided!

Scott

Re: Incorrect reflection

David Pacifico — Thu, 11 May 2006 21:44:45 GMT

Piranesi has a nice way of "capturing" a reflection so you can paint it on the surface you like.

... Of course it is only capturing the reflection of what it can see. So you don't see the faces of the people. You see their backs becuase that is what is "captured"... It's a trick, (dwight trademark term) but effective for most.

Re: Incorrect reflection

Anonymous — Fri, 12 May 2006 08:48:03 GMT

want two sided billboards (and more)? - use RPC
of course not in archicad
3dsmax or cinema4d

Re: Incorrect reflection

Djordje — Fri, 12 May 2006 14:10:09 GMT

zucoc wrote:
want two sided billboards (and more)? - use RPC
of course not in archicad
3dsmax or cinema4d

Also in Piranesi ...

Re: Incorrect reflection

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 12 May 2006 15:10:58 GMT

Djordje wrote:
zucoc wrote:
want two sided billboards (and more)? - use RPC
of course not in archicad
3dsmax or cinema4d
Also in Piranesi ...

Yes - nice in Piranesi for frontal views ... and multiple views of the same scene (and not available in Artlantis) ... but will not solve the reflection problem in Piranesi since, as David illustrates, the reflection is a 'capture' of the front view, not an actual ray traced render.

Scott,

Hi. You should consider the Fresnel glass shader in Artlantis R... it gives slightly distorted reflections and detects the individual lights. Sliders give you control over the distortion. Add a bit more specular to reduce the solid blue effect (unless you like that). Fresnel gives a much more realistic effect than a flat reflection. If the render time is short, you can render twice - once with and once without the flat people and combine the two images in Photoshop.

Also, The billboard vegetaion looks kind of bad in this image. Sometimes flat veg looks ok, but at this angle and proximity to the building, the Artlantis 3D vegetation (only a few free ones) may look better?

Have fun,
Karl

Re: Incorrect reflection

Scott Bulmer — Sat, 13 May 2006 16:24:10 GMT

Karl Ottenstein wrote:

Fresnel glass shader in Artlantis R... it gives slightly distorted reflections and detects the individual lights. Sliders give you control over the distortion. Add a bit more specular to reduce the solid blue effect (unless you like that). Fresnel gives a much more realistic effect than a flat reflection.

Hey Karl,

Thank you for your critical eye and suggestions. I agree that the billboard vegetation looks somewhat unrealistic when viewed so close.

This is my first project using any Artlantis product. I admit that I was seduced by the ease of populating/enriching the model. Also, the batch render feature (incredible!) allowed production of multiple views overnight, but landscape placement in one view may not have been appropriate for another. So as inferred, some close views should be created with the vegetation placed in alternate locations (cheating actual location of objects). Because there is no folder hierarchy structure for objects (at least in XP), perhaps close up views should be created in a separate Artlantis file, using cheated object locations, with the original file preserved for wider views.

AFA the quality of the billboard images; before Artlantis I added billboards from Image Cells professional series in Photoshop post production to LW renderings, but the billboard shadows weren’t 100% convincing (drop shadow layer effect). As you pointed out, some of those billboards may look better. Do you know of a way to import those into Art-R?

Finally, the Fresnel shader is a wonderful effect for the window reflections. Thanks so much for the 411 on that!

I am having fun. Artlantis R has been a great tool to use. Thanks again!
Scott

Re: Incorrect reflection

Djordje — Sat, 13 May 2006 17:36:21 GMT

Scott wrote:
AFA the quality of the billboard images; before Artlantis I added billboards from Image Cells professional series in Photoshop post production to LW renderings, but the billboard shadows weren’t 100% convincing (drop shadow layer effect). As you pointed out, some of those billboards may look better. Do you know of a way to import those into Art-R?

Just drag them into the library ...

Re: Incorrect reflection

Anonymous — Sun, 14 May 2006 11:03:49 GMT

Here is my humble opinion on bb, whatever it's worth...
Since Artlantis R, with it´s superb handling of 3d objects, I quit on BB.
The BB trees are gastly, and we only used them because 3d trees are so polygon heavy.
BB people are a little better, but have a couple of problems, being:
- They are photographic, so you get a resolution scale problem: persons have too much graphical information, when compared to the architectural objects and textures.
- They only work if your camera is about leveled at eye height. If you want to show a different perspective, they show up their trick.
- Shadow handling is tricky. If the sun is not behind you, you get really thin shadows.
- Chromatic and light values are different from your main image, so they feel "out of place".
- Most of them look foreign, or slightly deranged.
- Other stuff. this is getting too long.

Artlantis R can handle complex 3d objects very well, and even convert 3ds files.
These files you can buy, convert them into Artlantis objects and reuse them.
Some of them are very good and expensive, some are cheap and look it.
The best quality/price relationship I have found comes from www.formfonts.com
For the price of a meal per month, you can download and use as much objects as you want. But you have to maintain your subscription to continue using the objects. Still, its pretty cheap for the quality they have.
And no, I have no commission...

Re: Incorrect reflection

Scott Bulmer — Fri, 19 May 2006 18:04:52 GMT

Djordje wrote:

Just drag them into the library ...

in reference to importing billboards into Art-R.

Djordje,

I miscommunicated. I own high quality alpha channel images of vegetation and posed human figures, which I typically add post production in PS. I would like to use these if possible as billboards in Art-R, however when I drag the image into a scene, it is applied to the surface it is dragged to, which may be horizontal or a wall, but it is not a positionable object.

Do you know of a way that these alpha channel images can be used as billboards in Art-R?

Thanks for your time,
Scott

Re: Incorrect reflection

Rakela Raul — Fri, 19 May 2006 18:29:38 GMT

impressive

Re: Incorrect reflection

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:41:05 GMT

Scott wrote:
Djordje wrote:
Just drag them into the library ...
in reference to importing billboards into Art-R.

when I drag the image into a scene, it is applied to the surface it is dragged to, which may be horizontal or a wall, but it is not a positionable object.

Hi Scott,

You dragged from Finder or Explorer into a scene ... and the result in that case is what you saw, a texture applied to a surface which can then be fine-tuned in the associated material texture settings panel.

Unfortunately, to create a billboard in Artlantis, it has to be in Artlantis BB format to be dragged into the library (under the Objects [cube icon] tab). There used to be a program from a 3rd party that could create BB's for you from image files. Search the artlantis forums at artlantis.com or post a question there. There is a old wishlist item for Artlantis to make creation of BB's as easy as drag and drop.

OK. Looks like I had bookmarked the site:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/billbobuilder/
$20 shareware. Try Olivier's free billboard to see if they drag into R's object library panel properly, and from there into your scene. If so, then this might be just what you want.

(Piranesi lets's you use any masked image directly to populate your scene. Better than Photoshop for such things.)

Re: Incorrect reflection

Scott Bulmer — Sun, 21 May 2006 13:50:29 GMT

See Karl Ottenstein's post below for importing/creating custom billboards into Artlantis R.

Hey Karl,
As you suggested, Olivier Gras' billboard software looks great and should do the trick. That's exactly what I'm looking for. For your records, the web site referenced in your post has some downloading issues.

Oliver Gras wrote:

Download BBbuilder from this site:
http://www.mirarkitektur.com/mirasoft/BBBuilder/formulaireDL.html.

The other site is an old version which I would like to erase, but I'm unable to.

Thanks again Karl!
Scott