topic Re: AC10 render...what's new? in Visualization

AC10 render...what's new?

Mats_Knutsson — Thu, 11 May 2023 10:32:59 GMT

I can't figure what GS have done with the renderings except for the "natural sun" option... Check the glass material on this render. I could never have done this in AC9 (maybe my incompetence). The coloured cylinders are just plain paint which also looks really decent.

I notice a render just out-of-the box looks so much better with AC10. Improved material properties are most likely an explanation but I get the feeling there is more to it or...!?
I haven't had the time to play with the renderings yet but I will in the next weeks.
Cheers,
Mats

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

TomWaltz — Wed, 24 May 2006 14:12:26 GMT

I think the only thing they did is make more logical defaults for the rendering settings.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Mats_Knutsson — Wed, 24 May 2006 14:19:56 GMT

TomWaltz wrote:
I think the only thing they did is make more logical defaults for the rendering settings.

!!!? clever to hide this from the users for almost two years...not!? sometimes I feel but I love AC

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Wed, 24 May 2006 14:42:53 GMT

- Yes, there's work been done on the materials.
- natural sun option is nice - soft shadows built-in. Still need undersun, however.
- un-natural sun features also now implemented - but cryptic.
- antialiasing now a slider rather than radio buttons but still quite basic.

You are getting better glass because you've picked a "ray-tracing" glass option. The original ArchiCAD glass was not this sophisticated. LightWorks provides many materials that have yet to be introduced into the ArchiCAD library but dwell as .lwa in the LightWorks archives.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Mats_Knutsson — Wed, 24 May 2006 14:54:35 GMT

Dwight wrote:
- Yes, there's work been done on the materials.
- natural sun option is nice - soft shadows built-in. Still need undersun, however.
- un-natural sun features also now implemented - but cryptic.
- antialiasing now a slider rather than radio buttons but still quite basic.

You are getting better glass because you've picked a "ray-tracing" glass option. The original ArchiCAD glass was not this sophisticated. LightWorks provides many materials that have yet to be introduced into the ArchiCAD library but dwell as .lwa in the LightWorks archives.

Dwell=does not exist... GS should NOT trust the users to go on an adventure expedition for settings that shoud be out-of the-box. There are always some who will but 98% won't (IMO)...and that 98% speak with their buddies... Nuf complaining ...now I will go windsurfing!
Yihaaaa!!!!!

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Wed, 24 May 2006 15:10:55 GMT

I know what you mean. It is an immense task to thumb thru the archive list and convert the individual .lwa data into ArchiCAD materials - many of which are repeating.

People who bought my book receive a download of all of these materials brought forth from the archive into an ArchiCAD .aat file.

Certain "shaders" are a mixed blessing.

For instance, ArchiCAD 10 has swell brick materials with bitmapped shadows, based in a photo image. In the .lwa archive, there's a procedural shader for brick that lets you dial in any combination of color, size and stacking pattern, but the shader can't create shadows. Dang.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2006 16:19:49 GMT

Dwight wrote:
People who bought my book receive a download of all of these materials brought forth from the archive into an ArchiCAD .aat file.

Dwight, can you give me a web link to download these materials? I think I registered my book purchase, but if not, what is the process? Thanks

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Wed, 24 May 2006 17:21:26 GMT

Your registration was received.
I have just sent download instructions to your registration email.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2006 19:55:24 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Your registration was received.
I have just sent download instructions to your registration email.

Dwight,
I need to download also, could you guid me?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2006 17:28:42 GMT

Where is natural sun option?
I could'nt find it.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Tue, 30 May 2006 19:04:16 GMT

here

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2006 19:42:32 GMT

Thanks Dwight
but...definitly no differance...Sun is sun...or?

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Tue, 30 May 2006 20:52:35 GMT

Anyone who thinks that "sun is sun" has little potential to be an illustrator since they lack observation skills for subtle differences.

The good news is that you can learn, notwithstanding the hack solutions Graphisoft provides to simulate Sol's benificent radiance. Study photography.

[I am feeling poetic today since I just finished my trellis/colonnade in North Vancouver ar Victoria Park. Yay. three weeks of site work. But at least this geezer's back is not kinked....]

Our original ArchiCAD sun was like sun on the moon. Remember Neil Armstrong's picture on the moon's surface? Remember the Alamo! A good place to rent a car. But not on the moon. They not there yet. Budget was high bidder for Moon concession. This sun produced absolute, harsh shadows that could only be mitigatd with increased ambient light.

Once we got LightWorks in ArchiCAD 9, things should have improved except that the original ArchiCAD sun was still there - needed it for the internal rendering engine and some guy probably named Zoltan never got around to implementing the LightWorks Sun shader found in the Photorendering Dialog Box. But the settings were there in the parameter dialog but not connected to anything. Sort of like that Candid Camera episode from 1965 where the egg packer guy with the slow-down button on the assembly line was smashing all his eggs because his button was not connected. Hahahahahaha. That Alan Funt! What a guy. I hope he is happy in heaven.

http://www.candidcamera.com/cc2/cc2e.html

Because the Sun Shader didn't work, Graphisoft took out their hatchets and created the "Sun Object" out of an old stump - a bunch of light sources - just like the old ArchiCAD sun - logically arrayed in the sky. Their individual shadows, when correctly overlapped in a rendering of the right size viewed at the correct distance, cast a "soft" shadow. But if everthing wasn't right, then it was a banded mess.

In ArchiCAD 10 they connected the parameters to make the Sun Shader work, but go figure! Such cryptic descriptors! And no one at Graphisoft will write back to me explaining the terms so I can write my book supplement!

But I sense that Budapest saw trouble coming. "Zoltan, our idiot ArchiCAD users (because they haven't switched to REVIT, yet) can't cope with all the Sun Shader controls! Even that genius pest Atkinson can't figure it out! I wonder if he knows that the latter half of our fine city's name is named after him?"

So they made a simpleton sun - a sun that could simulate the effect of atmospheric diffusion caused by high overcast cloud. Any photographer will tell you that the best photography is on a partially overcast day because the haze reflects light into shadow areas, mitigating thier darkness.

Sun is not sun. Sun is dispersed light energy, either through a light source array "Sun Object" or by using a special mathematical procedure - a shader - in relation to the calculation of light energy performed by the LightWorks ray tracing engine.

Most illustrators use what I think is an artificially soft light. Looks like a model on a table.... This can be achieved by setting the sun diversion angle to the maximum of 30 degrees. It simulates cloud reflection. So make sure you have a partly cloudy background image to prove the illusion.

So in the end, the Sun Object that all of you have meticulously learned through my book ansd seminar is obsolete, except as an undersun. Rats!

The "Realistic Sun" shader provided in the PhotoRendering Settings Dialog is adequate for ArchiCAD users and simple to set up.

As for the number of samples - leave it as is until you see banding and then double it...some trial and error ... it is related to the final rendering size.

So there.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2006 08:23:27 GMT

With natural sun or realistic sun rendering takes just very long time.
OK, it looks similar with LW-sun objects....
Your example photo looks very nice, but nobody can compare if without natural sun...
We need more explanation.
I think, maybe you are the only one person who can explain....

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Wed, 31 May 2006 14:33:26 GMT

Once I receive my actual ArchiCAD 10 disk and can be certain of the implementations, I'll prepare a supplement to my book that will include a full explanation of using the various suns.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2006 20:41:54 GMT

strange, I don't have the option to change the sun settings, its just blank.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2006 21:26:10 GMT

Dwight's talking AC10, which, unless you got it by some other means, we don't have here in NZ yet. We're waiting to see if it kills anyone first, like Caesar's food tasters.

Re: AC10 render...what's new?

Dwight — Wed, 31 May 2006 21:33:53 GMT

Danj wrote:
strange, I don't have the option to change the sun settings, its just blank.

That is because you are a duffus. Join the rest of us in being amazed that ArchiCAD 9's default condition for shaders was to NOT show the parameter controls. That little box "Show Essential Only" hides all of the things you want to play with.

In Archicad 10, this is fixed and the parameter box shows everything by default.

But don't bother with trying any sun parameter adjustments in Archicad 9 since they are't connected. See Candid Camera reference from last posting.