topic Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x' in Visualization

Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

jamespage11 — Fri, 26 May 2023 12:59:40 GMT

Hi.

Has anyone else worked out a quick and easy way to do this?

(see picture)

The convention, in South Africa at least (not too sure about the rest of the world), for showing new timber in section is with a cross from corner to corner, but I have to touch up "by hand" all my purlins, rafters, wall plates, etc, etc, etc in section and it can be a bit tedious. I thought I might be able to create a new fill that could stretch to fill the cut surface rather than tile, but that doesn't seem to be possible.

Any suggestions?

Re: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Ralph Wessel — Tue, 03 May 2011 08:43:51 GMT

jamespage11 wrote:
The convention, in South Africa at least (not too sure about the rest of the world), for showing new timber in section is with a cross from corner to corner[]. Any suggestions?

Try modelling the framing with OBJECTiVE. Many of the timber objects bundled with the software provide an option to show a single or double line in section (see image).

Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 05 May 2011 16:36:58 GMT

Link wrote:
It can be done with complex profiles. And I know it has been discussed here before as I was part of one of the conversations. Try a search with complex profiles and top plates and/or studs.

Cheers,
Link.

As Link said, this has been discussed countless times with profiles given for beams, plates within walls, etc.

The attached image summarizes what you need to do for a beam...

1. Make a square the size of the SMALLEST timber/beam you will ever have. (Profiles can be stretched bigger, but never smaller.)

2. Use the Split command or shortcut to cut this square into four triangles. (Select square, split once from corner to corner. Now select the two resulting triangles and split from the opposite corners - you now have 4 triangles.)

3. Assign DIFFERENT fills to adjacent triangles: ArchiCAD will only show a line between fills if they are different in name/index number (appearance is irrelevant). In this case, you need two fills, indicated as "A" and "B" in the screenshot. If you need a particular fill and do not have another that looks like it, just duplicate the original and use the duplicate for 'B'.

4. Make sure that you have the Horizontal and Vertical stretch enabled and the stretch lines on the outside faces of your square as shown (default).

5. Save the profile.

When you use this profile with the beam or wall tool, the cross will show up in section. Since you have made it a stretchy profile, you can specify whatever dimensions are required for your beam and the "x" will show up properly.

Cheers,
Karl

PS I don't believe the (limited) START edition of ArchiCAD has this feature.

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 10 May 2011 17:13:57 GMT

Apologies to everyone who posted in this thread! A bug in the forum moderator code deleted the original thread while I was editing a copy of it in the Tips forum. I've copied what was left back here.

(Missing now are some discussion of the cost-effectiveness of Objective, Link's original message and some thank you comments.)

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Anonymous — Tue, 10 May 2011 20:17:40 GMT

Karl wrote:

The attached image summarizes what you need to do for a beam...

And my comment saying that this forum desperately need a like button. Honestly.

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Steve Jepson — Fri, 13 May 2011 16:55:59 GMT

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Anonymous — Sat, 14 May 2011 16:17:34 GMT

don't forget this Joist object from the object depository

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

NCornia — Sat, 21 May 2011 06:00:38 GMT

I was reverse engineering the out of the box (US version) complex profile entitled : "FNDN Conc. 10" w/ Brick Ledge" and noticed that the mud sill is created with a single fill, but has the "X" in the timber. It took me a second to figure it out but after zooming in as far as ArchiCAD would let me I found that the "X" was actually a hole in the single fill. It will show in section.

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 21 May 2011 16:25:55 GMT

NCornia wrote:
I was reverse engineering the out of the box (US version) complex profile entitled : "FNDN Conc. 10" w/ Brick Ledge" and noticed that the mud sill is created with a single fill, but has the "X" in the timber. It took me a second to figure it out but after zooming in as far as ArchiCAD would let me I found that the "X" was actually a hole in the single fill. It will show in section.

Right. I posted about that issue in the past: this hole also needlessly increases the polygon count burden for ArchiCAD. While the default template delivered with AC (at least the US version) is not really designed for real work, it should at least illustrate some best practices with the out-of-box experience. Sadly, it doesn't, and so new users struggle, have to find tips and downloads here, have a supportive reseller who gives them a decent template, and/or get customized training.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

NCornia — Sat, 21 May 2011 19:59:19 GMT

Shoot! It is too bad that a seemingly elegant method is actually more of a hinderance. Oh well, thank you for pointing that out. You have prevented me from developing a bad habit.

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Link — Sat, 21 May 2011 21:24:52 GMT

All is not lost! If you fill the inside of the 'X' with an empty fill, it should nullify the polygon count issue.

Perhaps Karl forgot that, as he was the one that alluded to it when we first tried it years ago!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 22 May 2011 00:00:27 GMT

Link wrote:
All is not lost! If you fill the inside of the 'X' with an empty fill, it should nullify the polygon count issue.

True, that magic-wanding a will will get rid of the polygon count issue most of the time. (Not all of the time, as it seems that some times magic wanding a curved area results in a curved fill that does not precisely align with the original - depends on magic wand settings/etc.)

But, there are other reasons to do it the way I illustrated earlier in this thread with four triangles using 2 different fills - the hotspots / lines are in the 'right' location if you need to dimension any enlarged wall sections/etc.

Like everything else in modeling - I just think it is best to do things precisely to avoid any possible issues later. Creating linework in section via minuscule gaps, even if zoomed in and filled with another fill, is just asking for problems down the road, I think. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Tip: Fill timber sections with an 'x'

BradJAllen19 — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 17:30:53 GMT

I've been using the method of different fills in a complex profile to create the 'X' in section as suggested above and actually used the the technique by ContraBim of creating a chamfered corner so multi-ply studs and beams are defined in 3D more clearly. Up until now this has worked well for me. The problem is that we are in the process of implementing Vertex BD which is a 3rd party software for creating detailed framing drawings and outputting to CNC machines for cutting and assembly (similar to ArchiFrame but way more intuitive in my opinion.)

We are exporting an IFC model and then converting the walls, floors roofs and beams into Vertex objects which works smoothly for the most part. The exception is with my beams or columns that were placed in AC. If I convert one of these complex profiles into a Vertex profile the IFC model splits each fill into (4) separate triangle shaped profiles. I get around it by only converting one of the profiles but it is quite annoying because I have to make sure I choose the same triangle for each one or they end up at different reference levels.

For columns you can just use a rectangle and turn on the crosshairs set to an 'X' but there is no way I can see to do the same for beams. This would be very useful for visualization purposes before exporting for the framing model to be produced.

It's probably a lot more complicated to incorporate a simple 'X' when beams are shown in section in AC than I realize and maybe that's why it's not done yet but I feel like there would be enough people with this want to make it worth while for Graphisoft to try and add it in an updated version. And maybe a tick box in the column/beam floorplan & section settings to prevent fills from merging if they are in say two beams that are adjacent to each other as in a multi-ply wood beam or column. Or maybe that would be in the fill settings when creating the complex profile.