topic Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf in Visualization

Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surfaces

JaredBanks — Fri, 26 May 2023 12:58:35 GMT

So coplanar elements with identical surfaces merge in elevation so that there faces read as one. This is a good thing.

BUT...

what about when you don't want there? For instance modeling framing, I want all the elements to be the same Building Material and Surface, but I want each element to read as discrete.

Anyone know how to make this happen?

I've thought about Complex Profiles with curved corners, but that is tricky, not real, and works great in one direction but gives extra lines in the other direction, plus when you look at the ends of the elements they aren't rectangular.

I could just fake it by changing surfaces of adjoining materials, but that isn't efficient enough.

Thoughts?

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 02 May 2014 23:35:41 GMT

Layer Set Number saved with the view?
Besides creating another Surface or BMat with different name.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Anonymous — Sat, 03 May 2014 01:06:58 GMT

Jared,
I would move the elements apart by a fraction of a mm as in reality the elements would always have a small air gap between them unless they are glue laminated for welded but then you would have the thickness of the glue or weld between them
Scott

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

JaredBanks — Sat, 03 May 2014 05:23:06 GMT

Different layer interesection groups would keep them from merging in 3D which is another effect I'll need, but it wouldn't create the line I'm looking for. I fear the different surface/BMat is what I'll have to do.

Scott, keeping them a mm apart would cause too many other issues and I think in this situation would be more cumbersome than dealing with different Surfaces.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 04 May 2014 14:32:41 GMT

Jared, if you dare messing with Registry settings, then you should check the "Line Eliminate Options" folder in the registry editor.

In Windows:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\GRAPHISOFT\ArchiCAD-64\ArchiCAD-64 17.0.0 INT R1\Line Eliminate Options

I don't know the Mac equivalent.

For example, there is a "Check Materials" option that might do what you want, I have not tried.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

JaredBanks — Sun, 04 May 2014 16:33:49 GMT

Thanks. I don't dare!

I was talking to Monte at GSNA and he suggested something similar. If this were a different kind of project, I'd go that route, but I also need something I can easily give to/explain to non-gurus...

I need to check that out though. Just to know.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

KeesW — Tue, 06 May 2014 07:56:06 GMT

I find it encouraging that experienced gurus such as Jared sometimes find the same issues as less skilled users such as myself. I have played with registries at various times and they aren't too frightening. However, in this case, I suspect that changing it in the registry, if possible, will change it for all instances - and most times we don't want it! Lines are needed especially when drawing details or surfaces which use the same materials but need to be separate, or butted. A default to choose which option one wants to use when drawing would be the best way to go. I've tried doing it by spacing components but it really messes with dimensioning.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Barry Kelly — Tue, 06 May 2014 08:13:04 GMT

Changing the registry will only affect the machine you are working on and will affect all jobs until you change it back.
As soon as you open the same job on another machine there will be no change unless you alter the registry there as well.

Layer priority numbers will not affect two surfaces that are in the same plane and touching.
They will still blend as if one surface - it will just stop the mitring at corners.

In 3D if using the Internal Engine you can set contours to 'Draft' but this won't affect your elevations.

The best way I know is to duplicate your material and give them slightly different names - i.e. 'brick_01' & 'brick_02'.
Then assign a different material to each adjoining surface.

Barry.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Erwin Edel — Tue, 06 May 2014 10:57:22 GMT

For this I just use duplicate materials. With ArchiCAD17 you can assign the same surface finish to it, even the same fill, just give the material a different name. Most common one for me is having 4 different Wood materials for prefabricated wood structures. For windows and doors we use different surfaces for frame, door and turning-parts (sorry don't know a good english translation for this one). This keeps them from merging, as windows/doors don't use building materials (yet).

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

KeesW — Tue, 06 May 2014 11:52:34 GMT

If you create materials with different names, doesn't AC automatically create unique numbers for it.If so, do you also need to allocate different colours or will the distinctive names do the job?

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Erwin Edel — Tue, 06 May 2014 12:53:23 GMT

The smallest distinction I have besides name is a difference in intersection priority. Another example would be having different types of concrete material. Using the same fill, same surface, but different priorities.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Barry Kelly — Tue, 06 May 2014 12:53:29 GMT

KeesW wrote:
If you create materials with different names, doesn't AC automatically create unique numbers for it.If so, do you also need to allocate different colours or will the distinctive names do the job?

Yes creating a new material will create an attribute with a new attribute index number.
The index numbers are always unique but I don't think you can have two attributes with exactly the same name either.

Archicad really doesn't care about the name, it is the index number that it is actually using but from a user's view we don't see that number.

The materials can have exactly the same colours, vectorial fills, textures, etc., but because they are 2 separate materials with 2 unique index numbers they will be treated as completely different.

Barry.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

JaredBanks — Tue, 06 May 2014 17:47:48 GMT

If this were ArchiCAD 16 or earlier, I think the multiple Surfaces would be the right solution—remember we can't say Materials anymore! But that's not very-BIM centric. And to do that with every piece of lumber in a house gets too cumbersome. I am hoping for an automatic solution that lets me keep everything the same Surface and BMat. Otherwise I'm copying and changing Surfaces all the time. Don't want that.

I was thinking about making all my Complex Profile rectangular sections clipped 1/16" or less at the corners. The angle will create three lines at each joint but it'll be so small it'll merge into 1. That works for columns and beams, but not roofs or slabs. since CPs don't work for those.

I can solve the roofs and slabs by setting all the edges of the roofs and slabs to 89.9. This will be impossible to see, doesn't affect top surface area, and I don't care about the slight decrease in volume (which would be negligible anyways). But it will create a line between elements.

For the columns and beams, I'm also exploring setting the layers to wire frame. Since I'm not seeing elements behind elements (for another reason), wireframe would work. And, FYI, setting to wireframe creates outlines of the elements in 2D and ignores surfaces. Try it out. Not sure if that'll create other issues for me down the line. So might lean towards Complex Profiles with clipped corners.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

Barry Kelly — Wed, 07 May 2014 02:23:36 GMT

JaredBanks wrote:
I was thinking about making all my Complex Profile rectangular sections clipped 1/16" or less at the corners. The angle will create three lines at each joint but it'll be so small it'll merge into 1. That works for columns and beams, but not roofs or slabs. since CPs don't work for those.

This will work for profiles stacked on top or next to each other.
But not for those placed end to end.
You'll still need different surfaces.

You'll be glad to know in 18 that a single profile can be split and use the same Building Materials in the fills and the lines between will remain.
So the old 'cross on a beam' problem can be solved just by splitting the profile fill - no need to change materials.

Still has a problem joining two separate elements though.
19 maybe?

Barry.

Re: Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surf

JaredBanks — Wed, 07 May 2014 03:31:57 GMT

end to end. Crap. You're right. I meant to double check the like-fills not merging in a Complex Profile today, then I forgot. Thanks for the confirmation. That will be wonderful for a lot of graphics.

Fortunately for this project, the sectional qualities aren't an issue. But end to end is... Damn. I think that once again suggests wireframe for plates... that might be infrequent enough that I could handle with a different surface. Need to run the first test.

Thanks.