topic Re: Saving the sun... in Visualization

Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Thu, 11 May 2023 10:06:39 GMT

If I understand the software correctly, a viewset created from a 'generic perspective' does not save information about the sun settings. A viewset does not record time and location, as the sun is a global item.

I have various views using one model, some I wish to render at night, some during the day. At the moment I have to modify the time settings every time I move from a day to a night view. Why not allow sun settings to be saved differently from one viewset to the next? Or am i missing something (hope i am!)?

Re: Saving the sun...

Dwight — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:15:35 GMT

Generic is just that.

A handy way to preserve settings is to place cameras within the scene using the toolbar camera tool. Each placed camera can be set up as you like, shows on plan and gets numbered. They also appear in the Navigator for easy picking. I tested that individual settings are preserved.

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:30:40 GMT

That's very helpful, thank you.

Re: Saving the sun...

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:55:10 GMT

But I believe the Sun IS saved with Views.
3D Projection Settings (which contains Sun Settings) and 3D Window Settings (which contains Shadow Settings) are saved.
However, it is true that this is not data/time and location from which Sun position would be automatically calculated.

Re: Saving the sun...

Erika Epstein — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:06:09 GMT

after making your sun and other settings, you need to redefine the view on the last panel

"redefine view with 3D settings"

HTH

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 07:22:00 GMT

I wish you were wrong Laz, because that's just plain weird, but at least you've solved my problem. Not understanding that non-intuitive quirk has just wasted me a lot of time trying to save and re-save views while trying to work out why the date kept being wrong but the shadows stayed right.

I'd be calling this one a bug? Anyone looking at the Sun parameters would reasonably assume the Altitude, Azimuth, Date and Time were permanently linked. At the very least, a little Yellow Exclamation mark could be added to warn us whenever the date and time don't currently match the Altitude and Azimuth?
For any who come after, here's a visual...

Re: Saving the sun...

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 09:09:39 GMT

I think the logic is that the Sun position is saved as you have shown in the image, and setting a location and date only gives the Sun position new values (which don't necessarily stick). You can then keep this Sun position or modify it to your liking. At which point the Sun data will not match those determined by location and date.
So Sun position is not driven by these values at all times.

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:11:53 GMT

Yep. Fuzzy logic
It's going to make sense to a computer, and maybe to a computer programmer, but not to an architect. I don't know about you, but I don't tend to think in terms of azimuth and altitude - I think in terms of date and time. So, the only way for me to check whether the azimuth & altitude are the correct date and time that I need is for me to re-enter the correct date and time! Un-necessary data re-entry is a big no-no.
What if I wanted to work backwards to find out what date and time was used in a previously saved view? The only way to answer that is by trial and error.
I reckon that's sufficiently fuzzy logic to require at least some form of alert/warning icon when the two don't match. Then, down the track they should have one of those link icons between the two, so we can permanently synch them if we choose.

Re: Saving the sun...

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:16:53 GMT

You should make a wish about it so it gets to Graphisoft for their consideration.

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:50:49 GMT

I've just had a similarly frustrating time, setting up a shading study for the first time, using perspective openGL views.

After a bunch of experiments to track down the problem and/or work out how the frig it all works...or not...I can confirm that sun position -- whether entered as time or azimuth, etc -- is definitely NOT saved in views!!

It appears to be saved in the Camera that is the source viewport of the view (the Camera viewport in the Project Map).

If you have two views and they both have the same source Camera, then changing the sun position in one, changes it in the other -- regardless of how you "save the current window's settings in the view".

If you want to have multiple views with the same perspective but different sun positions, you must create a camera in the 2d plan window (using the Camera tool), set its position as required, and then copy/paste multiples of that camera... then save views from each of them, for each different sun position you require.

Re: Saving the sun...

vistasp — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:52:40 GMT

peter_h wrote:
I can confirm that sun position -- whether entered as time or azimuth, etc -- is definitely NOT saved in views!!

That's odd. I've always saved different sun position with different views in the View Map.

Re: Saving the sun...

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:48:30 GMT

vistasp wrote:
peter_h wrote:
I can confirm that sun position -- whether entered as time or azimuth, etc -- is definitely NOT saved in views!!
That's odd. I've always saved different sun position with different views in the View Map.

Me too. Never had a problem.

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:39:19 GMT

Peter, are you ticking the "Redefine image settings with current" tickbox?
(See Erika Epstein's screen-capture earlier in this thread)

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 23:12:46 GMT

OK, now that some of you are saying "No, it DOES store sun in Views for me", I did a few more test to see how we can all be right.

Turns out, we both are. I just did a few more tests:

It turns out that it depends on the View's Source Viewport -- whether it's a "Camera X", or the "Generic Perspective"!!!

Conclusion:

Views that have their Source as "Generic Perspective" will save the sun settings in the View.

Views that have their Source as a Camera, will save their sun setting in the Camera source, not the View.

I got my results using a Camera source which is located on a Path in the 3D folder of the Project Map. When I created multiple Views from it, non of the sun settings would stick to the Views. If I created another Camera on that Path, the Views that were created from it maintained a different sun setting from the first Camera.

I then created multiple views from the "Generic Perspective". The views that were created from it all maintained individual, unique sun settings.

Feel free to verify this conclusion too, and post back with your results.

This is all a bit of a bummer for me -- I was trying to set up a raft of different views showing shading at different times of the day and year, but have them all based on one source perspective , that can be changed (if need be) in one place (the Camera), and have all the views change their perspective but keep their sun settings.
Looks like the best I can do is have a Camera per moment-in-time, and have that be a source for my 4 views based on that time (Proposed, Existing, heightEnvelope+existing, heightEnvelope+Proposed). Still leaves me creating 9 identical cameras for just 3 times of day, at 3 days of the year... and then have 4 Views for each of those cameras... totalling 36 Views. If I want to change my perspective, at least I'm only changing 9 cameras, not 36 (if I use "Generic Perspective" as the Source Viewport for each of the Views). But, you know, it could be just 1 to change if GS had some consistency as to where sun settings are stored. 😕

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 23:14:29 GMT

Ok, I did a few tests. I reckon Peter has a point - the difference is whether you're using a perspective or parallel projection.

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 23:15:45 GMT

dv_chris: Yes, it made no difference. See my post above for my conclusion as to this oddity.

Re: Saving the sun...

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:52:48 GMT

Good to know! (Camera vs Generic Perspective) I generally don't use cameras as I use Artlantis for animations, etc.

As far as I know, the Sun Study parameters are global. If they could be set per-view, then since the Sun Study can save images rather than a movie to a folder... and the time increment can be set to 3 hours (180 min), it would be a way to reduce the number of views.

Artlantis sun studies (an animation with only the sun info changing) are per-view, so you could create three views (one for each day - each view generating the 3 hour increment images) there...and the batch render feature generating all images for all views when you need them. You could even make the timeline jump to the other dates so that one 'animation' would generate all 9 image files.

Thanks for the tip on sun values for camera-based views!

Karl

Re: Saving the sun...

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 03:51:47 GMT

Thanks Peter,
Looks like you and I were typing our theses at the same time.
With your new info, I went back to check the View Settings of my sun studies. Sure enough, their source is "Generic Axonometry"

Re: Saving the sun...

Aaron Bourgoin — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 18:10:53 GMT

Did any of the logic described in these posts get undone with subsequent releases? I'm trying to set up 4 camera views with different Sun settings and am having no luck whatsoever using any of the methods described in this thread.

Doing this in AC 18.