topic Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various in Collaboration with other software

ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:46:20 GMT

Gidday fellas

I was just curious on everybody's thoughts about Revit and ArchiCAD....I have used ArchiCAD and am getting better and better at it...but i do most of my drafting (my architecture firm) using Smart Architect with AutoCAD. I am a forth year architecture student and have been working in an architecture firm for the last 6 months- cant beleive how much I have learnt!

Anyway, my firm is thinking about purchasing a license for REVIT.. no one else in the firm has had experience with ArchiCAD (well as much as me anyhow) and I was just wondering what everybodys thoughts are on REVIT and ArchiCAD? I have gone through REVIT very briefly and what I have noticed is that ArchiCAD seems to be more of a presentation tool and REVIT more of a professional working drawing tool. Anybody have any other comments or thoughts on the 2 programs so that I could relay them back to my office directors? Whats easier/ etc etc?

Any info much appreciated

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Djordje — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:04:08 GMT

Go through this forum ...

ArchiCAD is at least as much, if not more, of the CD tool; maybe nobody showed you how?

I would ask the local Graphisoft guys to drop by ... as the Autodesk ones have obviously already been there 😉

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

TomWaltz — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:15:02 GMT

While you could really debate the details for years, Archicad and Revit are not all that different.

They look different, act different, "feel" different, but it's almost impossible to call one better than the other in any meaningful way. They are both mature Building Information Modelers.

The thing I always recommend is to make the dealers do the work. Make your local Archicad and Revit resellers come to your office and SELL their product. Show them drawings of the work you currently do and ask them show you how their product can meet your needs (not just ask them if it can).

This not only ensures that the program will meet your needs, but also that your local reseller can provide the ongoing support you will need during any kind of transition.

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Rakela Raul — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:34:23 GMT

again and again... this subject will never end !!!

mister, there is nothing like trying it yourself..."taste is everything"

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:30:43 GMT

An interesting way to look at the topic is to look at the wishlist for each product. I don't think Revit is any less a CD-capable product (eh Djordje!) but we still love it despite some of the holes, which are forgivable for the most part.

Here's the dirt:
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=25943

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Djordje — Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:57:54 GMT

metanoia wrote:
An interesting way to look at the topic is to look at the wishlist for each product. I don't think Revit is any less a CD-capable product (eh Djordje!)

Well ... it should not be, right? Yet to see con docs of anything but family houses - done ONLY in Revit. Don't mention the Freedom Tower, marketing is marketing and facts are facts.

Maybe I am not looking too hard, maybe the blinkers are hard coded, or there is not much about, eh? 😉

Bottom line: it is the user. No software can do anything on its own. So, one needs to learn and to be supported. Where, how, when, how much? Where is the nearest reseller? Does he/she know anything except to give you a box and take a cheque? Is there a user group? Is there a community? Web forum (OK, it is there - "strangely" 😉 similar to this one)? Price? Compulsory upgrade (called "subscription") or not? Old version support? Ease of use? Complexity? Compatibility (not only dumb DWG and DXF, but more importantly, IFC)?

metanoia wrote:
but we still love it despite some of the holes, which are forgivable for the most part.

Quite so ... 😉

metanoia wrote:
Here's the dirt:
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=25943

Browse to Wishlist ... 😉

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Scott Davis — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 02:14:51 GMT

Web forum (OK, it is there - "strangely" similar to this one)?

Ah, so you have been lurking Djordje?

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Djordje — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:10:12 GMT

Scott wrote:
Web forum (OK, it is there - "strangely" similar to this one)?
Ah, so you have been lurking Djordje?

At the old days of Zoog a bit ... no time for more.

And Wes placed a link, so how could I resist? 😉

Seriously, the wishlists are in spirit mostly identical (freeform modeling for example), except for the stuff that one has and the other does not. I am really surprised that you guys don't have better DWG compatibility!

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:45:48 GMT

I am an occasional archicad user, however I am having a look at Revit, ( due to possible deployment in workplace). My first impressions of Revit , compared to Archicad are:

Revit doesnt have as good or intuitive an interface as AC.
Not quite as snappy as AC on comparable sized projects.
AC's library of objects is maturer and better developed.

Revits has live linking to its sections elevations, whereas you need to manually update in AC.
Revits sheets are simpler, and more user friendly than plotmaker
The "live connection" between walls to floors/ ceilings is a bit smarter in Revit.

I prefer AC, but the more I play with Revit, the more I am becoming impressed with it. (if only they made a mac version )

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

TomWaltz — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:56:10 GMT

Lennox wrote:
I prefer AC, but the more I play with Revit, the more I am becoming impressed with it. (if only they made a mac version )

Funny, I told our Revit dealer that too when we picked Archicad. "If you made a Mac version, you would have had a sale...."

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Chazz — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:54:49 GMT

Lennox wrote:
I prefer AC, but the more I play with Revit, the more I am becoming impressed with it.

My typical gloom and doom prognostication is that AC is the past and Revit is the future. And that is scary, mostly because AC had such a fantastic lead and what did they do? They sat on it. The development over the years has been so painfully incremental, so plodding and obvious that it numbs the brain.

The greatest frustration about being married to AC is watching all the new software being invented or the previous stuff being totally reinvented while AC continues to look like something from the mid 90's. This software needs a sex appeal transplant. That AC could be swallowed up by the makers of such bland offerings as AutoCAD is just depressing. As I have said here before, this situation has come to pass in part thanks to the dual platform development. While the Windows port was undoubtedly necessary to the long term viability of the product GS seems to have made a pact when they ported to Windows that the software would never be fun to use under either OS. None of the stuff that makes the Mac great is utilized by GS, presumably because these things don't have Mircosoft equivalents. Thanks for the Spotlight Plugin but golly, what about system wide spell check, support for core image graphics, nextGen font handling or automator? Thank God GS couldn't find a way to disable Expose, I use it 20x a day. The end result is that we are left with the worst of both platforms. Let's not even get into multi processor support.....

Autocad had to be yucky old AutoCad because it was a tool for all the trades, not just architects. To some extent this is also true of Revit as we've seen with Revit Structures. ArchiCAD is different in that it is only for creative pros. As a member of that contingent, I'd like a little more creativity in my primary CAD tool. Come on GS, blow my mind.

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:44:32 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Lennox wrote:
I prefer AC, but the more I play with Revit, the more I am becoming impressed with it.
My typical gloom and doom prognostication is that AC is the past and Revit is the future.

I was feeling this way, out of frustration with some issues in ArchiCAD, until I began evaluating Revit 8.1 ... and now cannot see how one can claim one is the future and the other the past. They each do some things well and some things badly. IMHO, knowing where ArchiCAD is headed, I think ArchiCAD is still ahead.

I don't buy software because it looks sexy/flashy (as said elsewhere in your post), but because it makes me productive, is easy to use, and is compatible with a wide variety of other file formats.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Rob — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:42:41 GMT

They sat on it. The development over the years has been so painfully incremental, so plodding and obvious that it numbs the brain.

sadly, it's so true and I think this attitude in the AC development has become rather annoying among the users and that includes 'half-cooked' or 'quick-fixed' features and solutions. Each new version of AC actually feels like extended beta with tools half-way there not properly implemented (lightworks - it's a bad joke to have a hi-tech engine handling a radiosity, raytracing, atmospheric effects and we've got two library parts instead that 'will' do it all - how beautiful and excellent idea!!! - I mean, what a slack).
I am just tired of waiting on the next version straight after receiving the latest one hoping - hmmmm, next time they will do something really big... yes, like we didn't know...

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Chazz — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:41:50 GMT

Karl wrote:
I don't buy software because it looks sexy/flashy

Maybe not, but here's the thing that gives me pause: The fact that AC does not take advantage of current technologies on my OS (I'm not even talking about Quartz Extreme or something, how about just file names longer than 31 characters?) makes me think that maybe the underpinnings and modularity of the code is not terribly robust. I'm no programer but I suspect this is why so many of the "new" features feel like extensions of things tried in earlier releases. Never is there something that really shifts the paradigm. All the recent releases leave one saying "finally! instead of WOW!

For example, Why should I have to manage all these links between AC and PM? Isn't that what computers are good at? Why do I need to explicitly tell AC that I need a site plan, 4 elevations and a few sections? why is it so hard to generate lists of things in my building? Why do I need to annotate things again and again when the thing itself knows what it is?

Karl, I don't want to put you in the position of GS apologist (and really I'm just riffing off your post) but I'm just amazed at the mediocrity we put up with as users. I'd like the bar set higher and while I'm at it, I'd like to incite a little more outrage..

The thing I hate more than anything else is that this software is so complex and hard to use. This means that many of us have spent half our professional lives mastering it --Which means we're loathe to switch to Revit or whatever --Which means few companies will be willing to risk such a development challenge --Which means that the companies that do make such a tool today don't have a fire under their butts to make it any better tomorrow. All of this inertia means that as an AC user I'm soooo glad that Revit is coming along. A war for dominance is heating up and it does not look good for GS. Want to know how this war might turn out? The clue to the future could be the past. In the long run this should be good for all of us.

Better stop here. Flame meter rising. Veins popping at temples.

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

__archiben — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:13:05 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Maybe not, but here's the thing that gives me pause: The fact that AC does not take advantage of current technologies on my OS (I'm not even talking about Quartz Extreme or something, how about just file names longer than 31 characters?) makes me think that maybe the underpinnings and modularity of the code is not terribly robust. I'm no programer but I suspect this is why so many of the "new" features feel like extensions of things tried in earlier releases. Never is there something that really shifts the paradigm. All the recent releases leave one saying "finally! instead of WOW!

For example, Why should I have to manage all these links between AC and PM? Isn't that what computers are good at? Why do I need to explicitly tell AC that I need a site plan, 4 elevations and a few sections? why is it so hard to generate lists of things in my building? Why do I need to annotate things again and again when the thing itself knows what it is?

... but I'm just amazed at the mediocrity we put up with as users. I'd like the bar set higher and while I'm at it, I'd like to incite a little more outrage..

The thing I hate more than anything else is that this software is so complex and hard to use. This means that many of us have spent half our professional lives mastering it --Which means we're loathe to switch to Revit or whatever --Which means few companies will be willing to risk such a development challenge --Which means that the companies that do make such a tool today don't have a fire under their butts to make it any better tomorrow. All of this inertia means that as an AC user I'm soooo glad that Revit is coming along. A war for dominance is heating up and it does not look good for GS. Want to know how this war might turn out? The clue to the future could be the past. In the long run this should be good for all of us.

Better stop here. Flame meter rising. Veins popping at temples.

worth quoting the whole lot. i'm 100% behind you more than you will ever know . . .

i think it's also worth extracting this image from your link and displaying it for as many GS employees as possible to see . . .

cheers
~/archiben

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

TomWaltz — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:13:19 GMT

~/archiben wrote:
worth quoting the whole lot. i'm 100% behind you more than you will ever know . . .

i think it's also worth extracting this image from your link and displaying it for as many GS employees as possible to see . . .

cheers
~/archiben

You rock!! Love the image.... I give it a "10"

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:44:20 GMT

I do think that we do all this talking because archicad just skipped a version. V9 was a no feature version. I have told it before. I do think it now after all the time i use it.

V10 will cover some of the gaps, but there are so many left, and we have to wait 2 more years.

I do insist that Archicad need BADLY a scripring environemnt.
Why? because MANY of the wished features can be scripted and not everyone can start learning the Archicad API.
A scripting environment would boost Archicad to the next level but... i guess we will have to wait.

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Rob — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:45:42 GMT

V10 will cover some of the gaps, but there are so many left, and we have to wait 2 more years.

I am afraid so....

The clue to the future could be the past.

Excellent reading for GS product managers... good job mate!!!

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

SeaGeoff — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:38:43 GMT

Chazz wrote:
The thing I hate more than anything else is that this software is so complex and hard to use. This means that many of us have spent half our professional lives mastering it --Which means we're loathe to switch to Revit or whatever --Which means few companies will be willing to risk such a development challenge --Which means that the companies that do make such a tool today don't have a fire under their butts to make it any better tomorrow...

No truer word were ever spoken, err, written. You'll notice the nods of agreement coming from the seasoned trainers posting here, and as someone who performs internal ArchiCAD support and training in a small firm I absolutely concur. Despite all that ArchiCAD can do I see coworkers commonly model things in SketchUp and then produce 2D details in ArchiCAD, using none of the higher level features. These are talented and competent folks who came to our firm with no knowledge of either program. A bad sign. And I simply do not have the time, authority, or will to evangelize, then painstaking re-train, these good people. Largely because ArchiCAD is so complex, often inconsistent and unpredictable, and requires numerous workarounds just to achieve the graphics these people have come to expect from their 2D background with AutoCad or VectorWorks.

At this point Graphisoft had better hope people feel locked in and not waste the little bit of time that buys them the way they wasted all those years when they had basically no competition in this market.

And they had better hope Autodesk does not produce a Mac version of Revit.

Re: ArchiCAD vs Revit...pros and cons + various

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:51:23 GMT

I have to dissagree here.
I dont find archicad complex.
On the contrary i find it very intuitive.
It cannot be compared to sketchup because there for different targets.

I think that Archicad is as hard to learn as any other cad application.
For me the transition from autocad to archicad was about 10 days.
Just to get used to where feature A in acad is now in archicad.
Ofcourse skills are developing but beeing productive in archicad is not hard.

But now that i think, how many do you most of MS Word features?
Most use it like wordpad